A couple of random Anglo-Gallic deniers

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by +VGO.DVCKS, Oct 25, 2020.

  1. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    First, thanks are due to @TheRed for suggesting this in the thread, Ancient & Medieval Coins Canada (AMCC) 3, started by @ValiantKnight.
    Meanwhile, this is a case study in my ongoing adventures, since joining the forum, finding the .jpgs of my coins, especially older acquisitions. These were relatively easy to track down. First, my less than stellar denier of Henry II, as Duke of Aquitaine in right of his wife, Eleanor of (...wait for it...) Aquitaine.

    COINS, FRANCE, HENRI II AQUITAINE, OBV..JPG

    COINS, FRANCE, HENRI II AQUITAINE, REV..JPG
    AR denier of Henry II, King of England 1154-1189, as de jure Duke of Aquitaine (from 1152).
    Obv. +hENRICVS REX.
    Rev. In four lines: o + o [/] AQVI [/] TANI [/] o E o.
    Duplessy 1030, Boudeau 469, Roberts 3881. (...Sorry, I don't have a copy of Elias, who goes into the series in much greater depth. Duplessy cites his no. 1; somewhere online, I found a reference to no. 7. ...Just wish I had the book.)

    COINS, FRANCE, RICHARD POITOU ANNULET OBV..JPG

    COINS, FRANCE, RICHARD POITOU ANNULET REV..JPG
    Richard I, King of England 1189-1199, as count of Poitou (in northern Aquitaine; initially held as an appanage, from 1172.) Denier of Poitiers.
    Obv. +RICARDVS REX.
    Rev. In four lines: o [/] PIC [/] TAVIE [/] NSIS ('Pictaviensis;' Poitiers.)
    Duplessy 920-928. (Sadly, Duplessy doesn't list this variant, with the annulet at the top of the reverse. As Elias, in all likelihood, does. ...Yes, you lose some comprehensiveness with Duplessy --making him, in that sense, the more modern version of Boudeau, c. 1910's, who, in turn, abridged Poey d'Avant, c. 1860. But from Poey, there's a steady progression toward up-to-date numismatic techniques, especially regarding hoard evidence.)

    COINS, Aquitaine, Ed. I as Duke.jpg
    And this is my first, and worse example of Edward as duke of Aquitaine, prior to his coronation. (Nope, can't find the better one to lower the (expl.) rent.)
    Obv. lion, 'passant' (in heraldry, on all fours --but not exactly. In decent examples, one front paw is raised, and this (expl.) has a Lot of mane).
    (From 1 o'clock: ) +EDVVARD' FILI' (Edward, son....)
    Rev. (from 6 o'clock; dealer's picture: ) +h'REGIS ANGLIE (...[of] Henry [III], King of England.)
    By the 13th century, even in the medieval Latin, the transition is well underway, from the constructs, 'ANGLORVM' (late Anglo-Saxon coins; 'the English people') and 'FRANCORVM' ('the Frankish people;' from 9th-century Carolingian coins, but mostly in reference to, um, France), to the more substantive, Angevin and Capetian constructs, 'Anglie' and 'Francie.'
    (Duplessy 1037.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
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  3. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist Supporter

    I have admittedly not read Elias, but I find little reason to since Withers & Ford’s published their outstanding Catalogue of Anglo-Gallic coins (see my review here)

    I’ll post some of my examples when I am not on my phone!
     
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  4. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Thanks, @FitzNigel. I can resonate with the first response to your review, from @Orfew, at least where Anglo-Gallics are concerned.
    ...Meanwhile, would you (or anyone?) suggest trawling online for used copies of Elias?
     
  5. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist Supporter

    I’m sure you can find some reasonably priced copies. I might grab one someday since so many dealers still reference it, but I would rather get some books that cover areas I don’t have yet.

    okay, here are my Anglo-Gallic coins!
    Med-05a-FAqu-1152-Henry II-D-2-1a.jpg French Feudal - Aquitaine
    Henry II, r. 1152-1168
    Bordeaux Mint, BL Denier, 16.57mm x 0.8 grams
    Obv.: +hENRICVS REX, cross pattée
    Rev.: º+º / AQVI / TANI / ºEº, in four lines
    Ref.: AGC 2 (1/a), Duplessy 1030, Roberts 3881, SCBC 8001, (Elias 1)
    Ex. R.D. Frederick Collection. Ex. A.H. Baldwin

    this is my newest purchase:
    Med-05a-FAqu-1168-Richard I-O-6-1a.jpg
    French Feudal - Aquitaine
    Richard I, r. 1168-1185
    Bordeaux Mint, BL Obole, 14.20 mm x 0.4 grams
    Obv.: + / RICA / RDVS / ω, in four lines
    Rev.: +AQVITANIE, cross pattée
    Ref.: AGC 6 (1/a), Duplessy 1034, SCBC 8005, De Wit 400

    I’ll need to replace this one at some point:
    Med-05a-FAqu-1185-Eleanor-D-9B-1a.jpg
    French Feudal - Aquitaine
    Eleanor, r. 1185-1204
    AR Denier, 17.86mm x 0.8 grams
    Obv.: + DVCISIT, M above, A below, two cross pattee on either side
    Rev.: + AQVITANIE, Cross Pattee inside
    Ref.: AGC 9B (1/a), Duplessy 1025 (Anonymous of William X), Roberts 4313, SCBC 8011, De Wit 401

    And here’s my first medieval coin:
    Med-05a-FPoi-1168-Richard I-D-343A.jpg
    French Feudal - Poitou
    Richard I, r. 1168-1185
    AR Denier, 17mm x 1 grams
    Obv.: +RICARDUS REX, cross patée, annulet in third quarter
    Rev.: PIC / TAVIE / NSIS, written in three parallel lines
    Ref.: AGC 343A (1/a), Duplessy 926, Roberts 3887, SCBC 8008, De Wit 394
    Note: My First Medieval Coin
     
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  6. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Nice ones, @FitzNigel. If you ever do want to lose that Eleanor, you're cordially invited to let me know! The provenance couldn'thurt any.
    Meanwhile, I'm at least encouraged to go look for a copy of Elias, hopefully his most current. Wondering if Withers & Ford is already helping used copies to trend down.
     
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  7. Edessa

    Edessa Supporter! Supporter

    France. Anglo-Gallic. Richard I, AD 1189-1199. BI Denier (19mm, 0.96g, 3h). Poitou mint. Obv: +RICARDVS REX; Cross pattée. Rev: PIC/TAVIE/NSIS; in three lines. Ref: Elias 8; SCBC 8008. Nice Very Fine, nicely toned. Ex Spink & Son with old ticket at 12.50 GBP.

    zaa.jpg
     
  8. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist Supporter

    Buying one of these for £12.50 is a dream... must be quite the old tag! Although we can say it is post decimalization I suppose...
     
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  9. TheRed

    TheRed Well-Known Member

    Those are great coins @+VGO.DVCKS especially the Richard I denier from Poitou. It is a great looking coin, as is your denier of Henry II. The denier of Edward I is a very passable example.

    As always @FitzNigel you have some nice coins. Congrats on picking up the Aquitaine denier of Richard. They always look so much more poorly minted as compared to his coins from Poitou.

    @Edessa that is a really great coin too. Congrats on getting such a nice example.

    Here are a few examples I have and have shared before.
    dXJ8Zp2LQak5x9Sw3CgmF57t6ewNJf.jpg
    86739q00.jpg
    4190561.jpg
     
  10. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @TheRed, thanks for your generous votes of confidence about my examples, and your, can we just say, less ambiguously accurate observations about @FitzNigel's and @Edessa's ones.
    Gotta admit, your retrograde of Richard as Duke of Aquitaine gave me not one, but a series of double-takes. I'd never run into those. Eventually found it in Duplessy ((1033A, citing Elias (as of 2004), no. 4 d and Poey d'Avant no. 2770).
    Along the same lines, I'd never noticed before how much cruder the issues of Aquitaine are than of Poitou. Especially odd since the ducal issues go back to the 11th century. In fact, the ones of William IX and X run to being that much better struck, along with what you could call 'moderate' legend blundering. (...Rats, can't find any .jpgs of those, without major excavation.)
     
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  11. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Alienor was an extraordinary woman.

    eleanore.JPG
     
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  12. ycon

    ycon Renaissance Man

    My two, Mother and Son:

    imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-IhPztQD8Say2.jpg
    116597995_10222980406287313_3127145125742215094_n.jpg 116714216_10222980403887253_6205936876968819019_n.jpg
     
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