A Constantine I SOLI INVICTO COMITI, AT

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by ambr0zie, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    Hello ladies and gents,
    3 months ago I bought my first lot of 34 ancient coins, it was the spark that lit the hobby.
    The coins were random, this was good for me as I learned how to attribute them, where to search ...
    Some of them were SOLI INVICTO COMITI types, I must admit that I overlooked them a little as 4th century is not my first option at all.
    I decided today to attribute all the lot and check if what I initially attributed is correct.
    Found this SOLI INVICTO COMITI, when I got the lot I spent 2 minutes studying it, there were others more interesting...
    Checked Helvetica's list (big thanks for all the hard work) - and cannot find any AT mintmark.

    Any help, please?
    upload_2020-12-26_18-56-53.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
    DonnaML, ominus1 and Bing like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter Basileus Megalos

    I'm thinking either Rome (RT) or Ticinium (PT)
     
    DonnaML and ambr0zie like this.
  4. Caesar_Augustus

    Caesar_Augustus Well-Known Member

    Looks a lot like my example. The exergue is actually RT, although the R does indeed look like an A. It's from the Rome Mint, third workshop (or officina). Mine is from the first workshop (officina prima).

    Constantine the Great
    AE Follis
    [​IMG]
    312 - 313 A.D., Rome Mint, 1st Officina
    4.27g, 22.09mm, 6H

    Obverse: IMP CONSTANTINVS P F AVG,
    Bust of Constantine I, laureate, draped, cuirassed, right

    Reverse: SOLI IN-VI-CTO COMITI,
    Sol standing right, head left, with right hand raised, holding globe in left hand

    Exergue: -/-//RP

    Provenance: Ex. Marc R. Breitsprecher 2019

    Reference: RIC VI Rome 332
     
    DonnaML, ominus1, Bing and 2 others like this.
  5. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    What are the elements indicating the officina?
     
  6. Caesar_Augustus

    Caesar_Augustus Well-Known Member

    In general, if an officina is marked on the coin, it is done so by either greek or latin letters or numerals signifying some number.

    @dougsmit has an excellent article about it, linked here: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/officina.html.

    In the case of these Constantine Sol Coins from Rome, the officina is shown as the second letter of the exergue mintmark. The first letter remaining 'R' for Rome. The number of officinae vary with issue. During other times, and at other mints, a different system may be used for the mint mark.
     
    ominus1 likes this.
  7. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    Got it, thank you for your help.
    I am not a fan of 4th century coins, can't explain why, but all these subtle differences are just annoying for me.
    Anyway, since my SOLI INVICTO were in decent conditions (5 coins), I think it was mandatory to narrow down all of them.
     
    ominus1 and Caesar_Augustus like this.
  8. Caesar_Augustus

    Caesar_Augustus Well-Known Member

    The minutia are quite interesting if you get to understand them. There are marks on coins with meanings yet to be deciphered on these. A vast sea lies ahead, ripe with opportunities for exploration, with regards to LRBs.

    I'd be quite curious to see your other SOLI INVICTO coins. I've dedicated some of my collecting to those types in the past. I also know of a few other members who have done much more work on these types who may be interested.
     
    ominus1 likes this.
  9. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    Of course.
    Apologies for the quality of the pics, there seems to be a problem with the light in my house and they are garbage.
    What bothers me is that some letters are clearly visible in hand but not on the pics.
    I am also posting the attribution I found.

    upload_2020-12-26_19-50-10.png

    2.86 g

    19.8 mm

    Constantine I AE Follis. Arles. 315-316 AD. IMP CONSTANTINVS PF AVG, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right. / SOLI INV-I-CTO COMITI, Sol standing left, chlamys across left shoulder, holding globe and raising right hand. S-F across fields. Mintmark SARL. RIC VII Arles 56

    ------------------

    upload_2020-12-26_19-50-52.png


    RIC VII Lugdunum 53

    Date: 316
    Legend: IMP CONSTANTINVS AVG
    Type: Bust of Constantine I, laureate, cuirassed, right

    Legend: SOLI INVIC-TO COMITIType: Sol, radiate, standing left, chlamys draped across left shoulder, raising right hand and holding globe in left hand

    Deity: Sol
    MintMark: A/S//PLG.


    ---------------
    upload_2020-12-26_19-52-25.png

    RIC VII Arelate 138
    Date: 317
    Legend: IMP CONSTANTINVS AVG
    Type: Bust of Constantine I, laureate, draped, cuirassed, right


    Legend: SOLI INV-I-CTO COMITI
    Type: Sol, radiate, chlamys draped across left shoulder, standing right, head left, raising right hand and holding globe in left hand
    Deity: Sol
    MintMark: R/S//PARL
    OfficinaMark: P
    OfficinaMark: S
    OfficinaMark: T

    RIC VII Arles 139; Sear 16081
    --------------------

    upload_2020-12-26_19-53-11.png
    (coin in this thread)
    RIC VII Rome 57
    Obverse
    Legend: IMP CONSTANTINVS P F AVG
    Type: Bust of Constantine I, laureate, draped, cuirassed, right
    Portrait: Constantine I

    Reverse
    Legend: SOLI INV-I-CTO COMITI
    Type: Sol, radiate, chlamys draped across left shoulder, standing left, raising right hand and holding globe in left hand

    -------------
    upload_2020-12-26_19-54-5.png

    RIC VI Treveri 869 (cannot be sure on this one due to the wear on the obverse)

    Obverse Legend: IMP CONSTANTINVS AVG
    Type: Bust of Constantine I, laureate, draped, right, seen from behind (?)

    ReverseLegend: SOLI INVIC-TO COMITI
    Type: Sol, chlamys draped over left shoulder, standing left (or standing front, head left), raising right hand and holding globe in left hand
    MintMark: T/F//PTR
     
    DonnaML, ominus1, Alegandron and 2 others like this.
  10. otlichnik

    otlichnik Well-Known Member

    ambr0zie,

    There appears to be something very interesting going on in the left field of the reverse of your SIC RT coin. The photo shows two curves in the field. I assume they are signs of slight depressions/changes in depth. It looks like the faint traces or an overstrike or some other striking error.

    SC
     
  11. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    It corresponds to the contour of Constantine's head as it matches that portion.

    I saw this kind of error on modern coins (19th century) but never on ancients.
    upload_2020-12-26_21-25-34.png
     
  12. Caesar_Augustus

    Caesar_Augustus Well-Known Member

    Good observations. Looks a lot like the coin was struck with clashed dies. https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=clashed dies

    It is not rare in these Constantine coins from Rome mint. Perhaps, they've gotten a few rookies join the ranks after Maxentius' crew was discharged.

    In my example below, you can see the faint outline of the portrait from the obverse die. Also, you may notice Sol has a killer set of abs in this depiction. Looks like he really enjoyed his calisthenics and kept a strict nutritional regimen.

    Constantine the Great
    AE Follis
    [​IMG]
    312 - 313 A.D., Rome Mint, 2nd Officina
    3.35g, 19.5mm, 12H

    Obverse: IMP CONSTANTINVS P F AVG,
    Bust of Constantine I, laureate, draped, cuirassed, right

    Reverse: SOLI INVICTO COMITI,
    Sol, chlamys hanging behind, standing left, raising right hand and holding up globe in left hand

    Exergue: -/-//RS

    Provenance: Ex. ValiantKnight (Jeff) 2017

    Reference: RIC VI Rome 323a
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
    JulesUK, Bing and Alegandron like this.
  13. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    One of the things you have learned in life is how to read handwriting. Once that meant your grandmothers' handwriting on Christmas letters. Now it means a few quirks of Roman coins in a few periods. You think that R is too much like an A??? have you seen the A's that look like H or a handful of Greek letters that you must learn to appreciate the subject. Ancient coins are a great hobby for people that like to learn and decipher codes.
    I fear you will not enjoy the hobby until you accept the fact that subtle differences are the best part. It is rare to find two ancient coins exactly alike in every possible way. Even those struck from the same dies will differ in ways you will learn to recognize.
    Caesar Augustus (the member, not the Emperor) has it right. Listen to him (especially when he says one of my web pages is 'excellent';)). Thanks for the mention, CA.
    I have not collected modern coins for over 50 years and never was a fan of errors but I do believe that over half of all ancient coins have some situation that would be considered a collectable error on a machine made coin. Clashed dies are extremely common to the point that there are clashes to be found on a good percentage of some issues. Modern clashes are generally weak while some of the ancient ones produced letters easier to read than the intended ones. I'm not saying you need to collect ancient errors but you will need to learn something about them if only to avoid them.

    One of my favorite die clashes is on this Constantine RT (Rome mint 3rd or tertia workshop) which is a double strike and shows the clash on the reverse offset just like expected from the double strike. This coin proves that the clash was a feature of the die and not damage to the individual coin.
    [​IMG]
     
    JulesUK, Caesar_Augustus and Bing like this.
  14. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    @dougsmit - I admire your work, experience and the large quantity (and quality) of info you provided for the collectors, not only beginners. In more than 1 occasion, when searching for info I found your articles, even earlier today
    www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/tiny.html
    An area I am interested and I want to learn more abouut.

    "I fear you will not enjoy the hobby until you accept the fact that subtle differences are the best part. It is rare to find two ancient coins exactly alike in every possible way. Even those struck from the same dies will differ in ways you will learn to recognize."

    You might think that I don't respect a 4th century coin (or a coin that's not among my favorites) but this is not true.
    I don't see why you're under the impression I don't appreciate coins.
    In fact what I like the most about collecting ancient coins is studying their history and attributing them (I have been a modern coins collector for 7-8 years, but I have been collecting them as a hobby since I was 5-6)

    I always try to attribute them myself, unless I get stuck, but before that I make efforts to identify/attribute correctly.
    I found an auction hose that I like (good communication, fast shipping) and one of the things I like about them, even if it sounds funny, is that they don't fully attribute the coins they sell. Usually they just say "Marcus Aurelius denarius" - but from what I saw they are rarely wrong and searching for the correct attribution just adds to the pleasure of the hobby.

    Even if I am quite a busy person (not by choice) I spend almost all my free time studying/reading about ancient coins. This activity is time consuming but I love it. I enjoy this hobby more than I enjoyed anything in my life, but this doesn't mean I don't have preferences. I simply like 4th century less than 1st and 2nd, for example. I am well aware about the differences, this is why I like to study the coins from a scientific/academic perspective.
    I simply prefer buying a coin from an emperor not in my album or a denomination I don't have rather than 2 different mintmarks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
    Clavdivs, DonnaML and Caesar_Augustus like this.
  15. Caesar_Augustus

    Caesar_Augustus Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Doug! Your webpages really did help me get started with collecting. I remember just browsing through each and every page at the beginning to get my bearings. In fact, it was that same coin that got me so interested in those minutia in LRBs; especially Constantine Sol issues from Rome mint. I've grown quite fond of them.

    Here's a neat one that was double struck on a large flan. This one features the god Sol holding the Victoria in celebration of Constantine's great victory over someone somewhere.

    Constantine the Great
    AE Follis

    [​IMG]
    316 A.D., Rome Mint, 3rd Officina
    3.72g, 19.0mm, 12H

    Obverse: IMP CONSTANTINVS P F AVG,
    Bust of Constantine I, laureate, draped, cuirassed, right

    Reverse: SOLI IN-VI-CT COM D N,
    Sol, radiate, chlamys draped across left shoulder, standing left, raising right hand and holding Victory on globe in left hand

    Exergue: ✱///RT

    Provenance: Ex. CNG Electronic Auction 456, Lot 751 (part of)

    Reference: RIC VII Rome 49
     
    JulesUK and Bing like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page