A confusing turtle!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by JayAg47, Sep 21, 2020.

  1. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    So I bought this Attica Aegina turtle stater last year when I first got into ancients, I saw this coin on eBay going for around 60 bucks from an Eastern European seller, what a deal right /s. Well upon receiving it I just didn't feel right owning this coin, the first thing that struck me even before paying for the coin is the incuse! it has six sections whereas almost all of the coins I saw online have 5, sometimes 4, but never 6, but I purchased it anyway. The next thing is the pits and bubbles of a cast fake. Finally, I made my mind to return the coin for a refund and I got refunded as well (thank goodness), but however, the seller didn't ask the coin back, just cementing the fact that it's fake. So I got stuck with the coin since then, but I couldn't bring myself to throw it in the trash either.
    Now the confusion is, could it be a fake made of actual silver (low grade)? I toned the coin with a boiled egg to see if it has any silver, and sure enough, it toned, the first pic shows the untoned, the second pic shows the yellowish-blue toning (particularly at the top right to the turtle)
    tone.png
    toned.png
    And I also did the specific gravity test on this coin and got a value of 10.02 (12.93g dry weight / 1.29g displaced weight), the actual displaced weight was 1.31g but I subtracted 0.02g for the suspension wire). 10.02 corresponds to around 70-75% silver!
    What are your thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
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  3. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    I am not an expert on these "turtles" and only have one very,well worn one in my collection. There are, I believe two versions of the Aigina turtle coins, one a smooth shell sea turtle and one a mottled land tortoise, which yours appears to be. I, too, would be concerned about it being a some kind of copy but it's hard to determine from only a photo. I also believe these coins were of pure silver, though there might have been a time when the "eyesore of the Piraeus" may have fallen afoul of Athenian intransigence, thus the specific gravity would be closer to 10.43, unless Aigina had to debase during its decline in power. Please let us know more as you find out other aspects of your coin and thanks for posting it.
     
    capthank likes this.
  4. PeterD

    PeterD Member

    The current price of silver is 0.86 USD per gram, so it would only cost a forger 12 bucks to make a 60 dollar fake.

    All those holes do look suspicious.
     
  5. Lolli

    Lolli Active Member

    Lol, all coins from Serbian (nfs) seller " miromanas-0" are authentic ;)
    So if anyone is looking for very cheap coins that are generally supposed to be very rare and expensive he is the right one, they are authentic modern Serbian artworks.
    I am curious why you thought that you can get an authentic one for so little money, as if all other buyers would be so stupid and wouldn´t be bidding on it if there would be any chance that it could be real and if you saw what other coins the seller is offering there could not be any question if any of his coins can be authentic.

    He has another die match for sale currently.

    "From an old private collection.

    All the coins were purchased at numismatic meeting

    more years ago. You are buying what is offered."

    There is everything wrong about this and his other coins, style is a bad joke.

    merged.png
    Attica-Aegina-Circa-480-457-BC-silver-1217.jpg
    Attica-Aegina-Circa-480-457-BC-silver-1217-_57.jpg
    TURTLE-AIGINA-ANCIENT-GREEK-SILVER-Ar-DIDRACHM-404-340.jpg TURTLE-AIGINA-ANCIENT-GREEK-SILVER-Ar-DIDRACHM-404-340-_57.jpg TURTLE-AIGINA-ANCIENT-GREEK-SILVER-Ar-DRACHMA-404-340.jpg TURTLE-AIGINA-ANCIENT-GREEK-SILVER-Ar-DRACHMA-404-340-_57.jpg

    Some more

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/143704814502

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/313152246730

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/224159571398

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=224159571398&_ssn=miromanas-0&_pgn=2&_skc=50&rt=nc
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  6. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    I agree with @Lolli, the style looks very off compared to authentic examples, and the turtle is very 'flat', while the pattern on the shell is still visible. Normally they are bulgy, so if it was flat like yours, it would have been because of wear, and the pattern wouldn't be visible anymore.
    An authentic coin like that, with full body of the turtle visible go for hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.
     
    FrizzyAntoine and Edessa like this.
  7. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    These are all forgeries.

    Barry Murphy
     
  8. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    I believe JayAg47 said in his OP that the coin was fake. His question is what to do with it.

    Some collectors keep a "black cabinet" of fake coins just to keep as a future reference. Another option is to turn it into jewelry.
     
    JayAg47, DonnaML and ZoidMeister like this.
  9. Pishpash

    Pishpash Supporter! Supporter

    I have a black cabinet. I may be selling up shortley (don't know for sure yet). If I do, the the black cabinet will be destroyed so that the coins don't hoodwink anyone.
     
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