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Message:: [QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 4578121, member: 110350"]In my recent "Snakes of the Roman Republic" thread, [USER=51347]@Alegandron[/USER] posted a cistophoric tetradrachm from Mysia in Pergamon from 85-76 BCE -- a period when that area belonged to the Roman Republic.  See <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/snakes-of-the-roman-republic.361571/#post-4564530" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/snakes-of-the-roman-republic.361571/#post-4564530">https://www.cointalk.com/threads/snakes-of-the-roman-republic.361571/#post-4564530</a> .  I had never seen that kind of coin before -- only cistophoric tetradrachms from the Imperial period -- and thought it was beautiful. I knew I wanted one like it.  So I purchased this coin, and it arrived the other day: Lydia, Tralleis/Tralles, AR Cistophoric Tetradrachm, 126/125 BCE, Ptol-, Magistrate. Obv. Cista mystica with lid ajar and serpent emerging; all within ivy wreath / Rev. Bowcase (gorytos) with two serpents (one to left and one to right, heads at top); H [= date = Year 8 = 126/125 BCE] over ΠTOΛ [PTOL] above, between serpents’ heads; TPAΛ [TRAL] in left field; to right, Dionysus in short chiton standing facing, head left, holding thyrsos in right hand and mask of Silenos in left hand. SNG Copenhagen 662-663 var. [different year] [Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Copenhagen, The Royal Collection of Coins and Medals, Danish National Museum, Part 28, Lydia Part 2 (Copenhagen 1947)]; BMC 22 Lydia 48 (p. 333) var. [different year] [B.V. Head, A Catalogue of Greek Coins in the British Museum, Vol. 22, Lydia (London, 1901); SNG von Aulock 3262-3264 var. [different year] [Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Deutschland, Sammlung Hans Von Aulock, Vol. 2: Caria, Lydia, Phrygia, Lycia, Pamphylia (Berlin, 1962)]; Pinder 159 [same year -- “H”]; see also id. 157-158 [different years] [M. Pinder, Über die Cistophoren und über die kaiserlichen Silbermedaillons der Römischen Provinz Asien (Berlin, 1856) at pp. 565-566]. 24 mm., 12.64 g. [probably = 3 drachms, not 4], 1 h. Ex: CNG Auction 225 (13 Jan. 2010), Lot 144.  [ATTACH=full]1133581[/ATTACH] And this is the photo and description of my coin from the CNG archives, from 2010: [ATTACH=full]1133582[/ATTACH] The date "H" (8) signifies Year 8 since 133 BCE, when the Pergamene kingdom passed by bequest to the Roman Republic upon the death of Attalus III, and became part of the Province of Asia.  (When I bought the coin, I didn't even realize that Tralleis/Tralles -- I've seen it spelled both ways with approximately equal frequency -- belonged to the Roman Republic at the time the coin was issued.) According to BMC 22 Lydia at p. cxxxvii, no coins minted in Tralleis had been found (as of 1901) bearing dates later than Year 8.  The author suggests that after Tralleis participated in the unsuccessful revolt against Roman rule by Aristonicus (a/k/a Eumenes III), who claimed to be the illegitimate son of Attalus III’s father Eumenes II, the Romans may have punished the city by depriving it of various privileges, including the privilege of minting silver coins. [But all the more modern sources I checked state that this rebellion had been suppressed by 129 BCE, making this explanation seem unlikely.] It's been 119 years since BMC 22 was published.  Does anyone have any idea where I'd look to try to find out if any Tralleis coins have been found since then with a date later than Year 8?  I've already spent quite a bit of time looking through cistophoric tetradrachms from Tralles/Tralleis on acsearch and the CNG archives -- annoyingly, in both archives I had to search separately under both spellings of the city -- but found no coins with dates later than Year H or 8.  Something making the search more difficult was that 90%+ of Tralleis cistophoric tetradrachms are of the variety with the year on the left of the coin, above the TPAΛ [TRAL] -- rather than in the middle, above the ΠTOΛ [PTOL-] or other magistrate's name, as on mine -- and many of those dates are off the flan, so it's impossible to know what year they were issued.  Any further suggestions for places to look for dates later than Year 8 -- or for more plausible explanations than BMC's of why Tralleis seems to have stopped issuing cistophoric tetradrachms in or about 126/125 BCE -- would be welcome.  I know that these are incredibly obscure questions, but I thought there would be no harm in asking! Another, more fundamental question: why are coins like this, issued before the Roman Empire by provinces owned by the Roman Republic, not considered Roman Provincial coins?  You may have noticed that all the catalogue references in my description of this coin are to reference works for "Greek" coins -- except for the one book published in Berlin in 1856!  Some of these works don't even seem to mention that Tralleis belonged to the Republic when these coins were issued. I asked a similar question in the "Ancient Collectors! What do you collect? (Quick poll)" thread about what one should call coins minted in places like Lydia after it came into the possession of the Republic: simply "Greek," or "Roman Provincial," or something like "Republican Provincial"? I don't think I've ever seen the "Republican Provincial" term used, though, and perhaps it's a bit late in the day to be inventing new categories. And the Roman Provincial Coinage (RPC) project begins only in 44 BCE, ignoring all previous Roman provincial coins. See<a href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/" rel="nofollow">https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/</a>.  David Sear's catalogue of Greek Imperial Coins also omits pre-Empire coins -- specifically, it begins with 27 BCE. Anyway, I know that [USER=51347]@Alegandron[/USER] agrees with me that coins like his and mine should count as Roman Provincial coins.  I don't really understand why that view isn't generally accepted.[/QUOTE]

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