A bronze tetarteron of John III Ducas-Vatatzes, SBCV 2115 for $9,999?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by robinjojo, Mar 13, 2022.

  1. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    That is an outstanding one!
     
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  3. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    That is a great set of John Tetartera! They're all great (I love Tetartera generally) but the first one is spectacular, probably one of the best centered examples I've seen of the flat coinage from the period. You can read the complete legend, which is no small feat for late (or middle) Byzantine coins.
     
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  4. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    Oh, yeah, I see now, you're exactly right of course. Thanks for pointing it out -- I've updated my notes!

    What's really interesting is that none of their specimens show a complete legend, and several of the characters given don't show up in any of their 5 specimens! (The ΠOTHC are the ones that probably wouldn't fit, one example has ΠOH and another Π.) (And a few odd characters that seem like engraving errors. I'm not terribly familiar with it, but I guess that may not be unusual for late Byzantine coinage.)

    Hendy seems to have first given that exact legend transcription in his 1969 Coinage and Money in the Byzantine Empire (page 244, no. 34.1 & 2), cataloging the same coins numbered 56.1 & 56.3 in DOC vol IV.2.

    DOC IV part 2, pages 508-509, 56.1-5:
    DOC (Dumbarton Oaks Catalog) v4, p508-509, 56 (ex 1-5).jpg
    Hendy (1969) page 244, 34.1 & 2 (if you don't have Hendy 1969 -- superseded by DOC anyway -- it's on Scribd if you subscribe):
    Hendy 1969 p244 34-1 Description John Ducas Vatatzes Tetarteron.png
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
  5. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Really nice coins posted! Thanks

    Is is my other John III Ducas, AE tetarteron, Magnesia Mint. This coin was part of the same group lot as the OP coin. Both coins share the same kind of patination, so they probably came out of the same hoard.

    2.0 grams

    D-Camera Nicaea Empire, John III Ducas Tetarteron. Magnesia Mint 2.0g Roma 80 large lot 2-17-21.jpg
     
  6. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    Here is another one that hasn't been posted yet. Note that it is not the mega opus that recently sold at Nomos AG for 320 CHF:

    [​IMG]

    Mine is much more humble than that, but still pretty good for type:

    Empire of Nicaea: John III Ducas-Vatatzes (1221-1254) AE Tetarteron, Magnesia Mint (Sear 2117; DOC IV.59)
    Obv: Cross within crescent-shaped ornament decorated with pellets
    Rev: Half-length figure of emperor wearing stemma, divitision, collar-piece, and paneled loros of simplified types; holds in right hand labarum-headed scepter, and in left globus cruciger or globus surmounted by patriarchal cross

    [​IMG]
     
  7. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    The Nomo one I was an unsuccessful bidder, I ended up getting an aspron trachy instead. It really is an above perfect specimen. I really like the traces of an obverse on the reverse.

    My main reason for holding off is I still liked my example, not perfect but has character. Small 19mm 1.8gm
    b4.jpg
     
  8. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    That's not bad either, with good definition on the obverse and reverse. As for the Nomos one, I didn't even bother as I knew it was going to go really high...
     
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  9. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    Both great coins! I can't get enough of AE (or BI) Tetartera with the emperor wearing loros. Just such cool looking coins.

    Funny you call it small, BenSi, since I was going to say one thing I like about both of yours are the big rectangular flans. @Quant.Geek , I love how yours particularly shows the original shape of the "flan" (if it's even still called a flan when clearly cut from a sheet or strip of metal).

    I saw the Nomos one at auction and noticed what looked like an undertype on the reverse? Anyone know what's going on there? Doesn't seem like a die clash. At first I thought the obv of an old Tetarteron, traces of the loros? But circles not dots-in-squares, and I can't find anything that would fit...
     
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