A Broken Die?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Sulla80, Jun 30, 2021.

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  1. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    upload_2021-6-30_22-15-3.png
    A Roman copy of a Greek bronze statue of Athena (possibly Itonia), Louvre Museum, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

    Philip V was defeated by the Romans (allied with Pergamon and Rhodes) and gave up all his possessions in southern Greece, Thrace and Asia Minor. T. Quinctius Flamininus won the decisive battle in the Cynoscephalae hills to the south of Scotussa in Thessaly. Afterwards, Livy reports that at the start of the Isthmian Games, the declaration was made:

    "THE SENATE OF ROME AND T. QUINCTIUS, THEIR GENERAL, HAVING CONQUERED KING PHILIP AND THE MACEDONIANS DO NOW DECREE AND ORDAIN THAT THESE STATES SHALL BE FREE, SHALL BE RELEASED FROM THE PAYMENT OF TRIBUTE, AND SHALL LIVE UNDER THEIR OWN LAWS, NAMELY THE CORINTHIANS; THE PHOCIANS; ALL THE LOCRIANS TOGETHER WITH THE ISLAND OF EUBOEA; THE MAGNESIANS; THE THESSALIANS; THE PERRHAEBIANS, AND THE ACHAEANS OF PHTHIOTIS."
    -Livy History of Rome 33.32


    The Thessalian League was established as a federation of city states with a representational council and Larissa as the capital. This is a scarce coin from this federation, portraying Apollo on the obverse and on the reverse, Athena Itonia which was the local cult of Athena named for the town of Iton. A writeup on Athena Itonia can be found on CT thanks to @Jochen1. This coin likely struck in Larissa.
    Thessalian League Apollo.jpg
    Thessaly, Thessalian League, Drachm (4.24 g), Late 2nd-mid 1st centuries BC, Her… and Heg… magistrates
    Obv: Laureate head of Apollo right; behind, HP monogram
    Rev: ΘEΣΣA-ΛΩN, Athena Itonia striding right, hurling spear and holding forth shield; in right field, HΓ monogram
    Ref: BCD Thessaly II (Triton XV) Lot 836; BMC 42; McClean 4968

    Four coins show up in ACSearch (in 6 auctions) that are a double die match to my coin with an interesting feature.
    upload_2021-6-30_21-42-0.png
    It looks like the die broke at some point as the coin on the left does not show the missing bit of die at the top that you can see on the others. Here are the reverses (all from same die as well):
    upload_2021-6-30_21-43-47.png

    Here are the ACSearch links (4 coins in 6 sales) - coins listed in the order illustrated above from left to right.
    Post your coins with die breaks, coins of the Thessalian league, or anything else you find interesting or entertaining.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
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  3. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Interesting die study, @Sulla80! Here's a Thessalian League coin featuring Athena Itonia. It's not going to win any beauty contests:

    [​IMG]
    Marcus Aurelius, AD 161-180.
    Roman provincial Æ 25.2 mm, 10.79 g, 5 h.
    Thessaly, Thessalian League, AD 161-180.
    Obv: AYT M AYP AN-TѠNЄINOC, laureate head, right.
    Rev: KOINON ΘΕCCΑΛѠΝ, Athena Itonia striding right, hurling spear and holding shield.
    Refs: RPC IV.1, 4565 (temporary); Rogers 95; BMC 79; SNG Evelpidis 1680-81; Mionnet Suppl. III 61.
     
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  4. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    @Sulla80.......Interesting write up thanks.....Photos made it really easy to follow.
    BTW...Nice coin!
    Here's one from the Thessalian league....
    Thessalian League. Around 197-150 BC. AE Trichalcon (7.64 gm, 19mm). Hippolo(chos), magistrates.
    Obverse: laureate head of Apollo right.
    Reverse: ΘEΣΣA ΛΩN (THESSALON) in two lines, Athena Itonia striding right, hurling spear held in her right hand, shield on her left arm; ΙΠΠ-ΟΛΟ (IPOLLO magistrates name) over spear and A-PI across central field.
    BCD Thessaly II, 900.3; Rogers 21.SNG Copenhagen 315.

    Zn2TbDQ58LwJ59Ac3pnDyoY7H6Zei8.jpg
     
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  5. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Sure looks like a die break to me on that excellent new beauty of yours Sulla:artist:. Very cool watching the progression on the different coins:bookworm:
    I've found a couple die matches of one of my favorite RRs.
    It's been very easy to spot the die matches when they come up for sale. And not just due to the wonderful artistry. She's a spitter. Some sort of die break happened to make it look like she is spitting. As well, atop her beautiful head almost looks like lettering, "GACAC". But again, I figure it is more likely something to do with the die.
    The top one is mine, the other two I've noticed at auction as die matches:

    1224925_1591361402.l.jpg
    Creperius, Rocus
    Denarius. 68 BC. Uncertain mint. (Ffc-657). (Craw-399-1b). (Cal-522). Obv: Bust of the back of the Sea Goddess to the right, C to the right, to the left crab. Rev .: Neptune with trident, in biga pulled by hippocampi to the right, below Q CREPER M (F) / ROCVS. Ag. 3.61 g. Usually struck off center. Very scarce. VF.
    Ex: Tauler & Fau

    4-EO5P0.jpg 1962690_1622793747.l.jpg
     
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  6. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..yup, they did that...they had much respect for,but you know the Greeks...wasn't long till they were bickering and fighting amongst themselves and Rome hadda go and put their foot down...
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
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  7. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Thessalian league Ar Stater 50-30 BC Obv. Head of Zeus right wearing oak leaf crown. Rv. Athena Itonia In fighting stance right Polyxenos and Eukolos Magistrates. HGC 210 5.91 grams 24 mm Photo by W. Hansen thessleag7.jpg Right now it is very close to 35 Celsius here and I am finding it just a bit warm. This series of staters is part of the last issues of silver coins of this series. Some of the magistrates on this coinage can be linked to individuals who were either enemies or allies with Julius Caesar when he was in Greece fighting Pompey.
     
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  8. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    @Roman Collector & @Spaniard - glad to see some Thessalian bronzes - and I have many open questions about the level of autonomy that might have existed in a Thessalian league by the time of Marcus Aurelius.

    That is an easy one to see - I like the crab control mark!
    crab.gif
    I've been hiding in the air conditioning - peaked at 99F/37C the last two days - some rain that just made it steamy. Do you happen to have a reference for magistrates and dates? Your coin very different style than this one:
    Thessalian Leaguew.jpg
    Thessaly, Thessalian League, Late 2nd – mid 1st century BC, AR Stater, Kraterophronos and Amynandros, magistrates.
    Obv: Head of Zeus right, wearing oak wreath
    Rev: ΘEΣΣA/ΛΩN, Athena Itonia striding right, hurling spear held in her right hand, shield on her left arm; KPA-TEPO/ΦPO-NOΣ above spear and across central fields, Λ above monogram in inner right field, AMVNANΔPOΣ in exergue
    Ref: McClean 4725, pl. 176, 20
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
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  9. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    If anyone missed it; I thought the mushrooms were just kicking in when the little crab control mark came scuttling across the coin at the end... nope.
    The mushies hit and Sulla is a genius!
    That's some @TIF level posting right there:cigar:
    10 likes button activate!
    crab.gif

    giphy (1).gif
     
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  10. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    In response to the question posed by Sulla80. As far as I know there is nothing published on this coinage. The only sources that I am familiar with are the BCD Thessaly catalogues produced by CNG and Nomos a number of years ago. You are right to note the difference in style. My coin was struck about 100 years after yours give or take, thus the style though consistent with others minted during this period is different. The magistrates that I refer to above are discussed in this book by M Crawford.
    41r-Yc1CRgL._SX359_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg It is an excellent overview of the Roman Republican Coinage and compliments his other study of the coinage, however as it was published in 1985 can be somewhat dated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  11. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ...dear penpal...please send some for my soup :D..:woot::wideyed::wacky:
     
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  12. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, @Terence Cheesman, a book that I happened to have sitting next to me. Here's the paper from Peter Robert Franke, describing the hoard found in Aidona of 4 denarii and 4 thessalian staters.

    I will add the reference from Caesar's Bellum Civile III 35 to a friend and an enemy in Thessaly (both names appear on Thessalian staters - and I wish there were more clues to the Heg... and Her... on my OP coin):
    "Of these officers Calvisius was received on his arrival with the utmost goodwill of all the Aetolians, and having expelled the garrisons of the foe from Calydon and Naupactus gained possession of the whole of Aetolia. Cassius arrived with his legion in Thessaly; here, since there were two factions, he met with a divergence of feeling among the towns: Hegesaretos, a man of long-established influence, favoured the cause of Pompeius; Petraeus, a youth of the highest rank, energetically supported Caesar with his own and his people's resources."

    An example of a different die shown for my OP coin in Triton XV.
    Nomos Auction 4 also available on issuu.
    upload_2021-7-2_15-47-22.png

    Yes & thanks. For proper context, I should have covered the subsequent 50 years...and with it some coins of the Roman Republic. First a coin that celebrates the victory in the Third Macedonian War (171–168 BC), over son of Philip V, Perseus, at Pydna in 168 BC by Lucius Aemilius Paulus who was consul in 182 and 168 BC.
    Lepidus Concordia b.jpg
    L. Aemilius Lepidus Paullus, 62 BC, AR Denarius, Rome mint
    Obv: Veiled and diademed head of Concordia right
    Rev: Trophy; to left, three captives (King Perseus of Macedon and his two sons) standing right; to right, Paullus standing left
    Ref: Crawford 415/1; Sydenham 926; Aemilia 10

    Here's a second coin celebrating the next battle with the Macedonians. This time with the coin commemorating the moneyer's father, Q Caecillius Metellus who became Macedonicus for his victory over Andriskos (claiming to be the son of Perseus, and with support from the Seleukids and Carthage). The final battle again at Pydna in 148 BC.
    M. Caecilius Metellus.jpg
    M. Caecilius Q.f. Q.n. Metellus, 127 BC, AR Denarius, Rome mint
    Obv: Helmeted head of Roma right, ROMA upward behind; mark of value below chin
    Rev: M.METELLVS.Q.F. around Macedonian shield with elephant's head in central boss, surrounded by laurel wreath
    Ref: Crawford 263/1a; Sydenham 480; Caecilia 29

    From this time the Thessalian league was integrated into the Roman province of Macedonia. Local bronze coinage during the Imperial period continued to be issued with Athena Itonia.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
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