Featured A British penny only a specialist will appreciate.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by johnmilton, Aug 31, 2020.

  1. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Maybe there was a reason why these guys let the lettering mush out on these coins. If you could not read the source or the moneyer, you would have a harder time figuring out who might be debasing or issuing underweight coins.

    There was the story about Henry I and the "Christmas present" he gave to bad moneyers who were issuing underweight and debased coins. He asked them to drop by to London for the holidays. When they got there, they were deprived of their right hand and their manhood. It was certainly example of medieval justice. It provides a practical example of the expression, “I going to get medieval on your a**” … butt.
     
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  3. PeterD

    PeterD Member

    Excellent write-up.

    One small point, though. Coins weren't clipped to test them. They were clipped so that the clippings could be taken to the mint and made into more coins. A system called 'free minting' was in operation, whereby anyone could take silver to the mint and have it made into new coins. The mint (and there were numerous scattered about the country) took a fee for the king and a fee for the moneyer. Everyone was happy apart from the poor guys that ended up with the clipped coins and who were probably punished for having them.

    An excellent book on the subject is 'Mints and Money in Medieval England' by Martiin Allen.
     
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  4. TheRed

    TheRed Well-Known Member

    Congrats on those great coins @johnmilton. They are some wonderful examples of Norman pennies. Your penny of Henry I is really spectacular.
     
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  5. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I understand that they did that in Massachusetts with the silver coinage. When I lived in New England, dealers sometimes had cull Massachusetts Pine Tree Shillings that were clipped all the down to the inner ring. The two rings were put there to provide a warning to people that the piece had been clipped and was therefore debased. It didn't seem to sink in. Of course it didn't help if the coin was struck off-center, which is not unusual for some Massachusetts silver issues.

    Large Pine Tree Shilling
    This sort of a "poster child" coin for the series because it is almost always well executed, and it's attractive when nice.

    Mass Pine Shil N 1 O.jpg Mass Pine Shil N 1 R.jpg

    This is the most common variety (Noe 33) of the Pine Tree six pence, which is always (I think) struck off center. I have never seen one that was not off-center.

    Mass 6 Pence O.jpg Mass 6 Pence R.jpg

    This Oak Tree shilling is off-center also.

    Mass Oak Shil N 4 O.jpg Mass Oak Shil N4 R.jpg
     
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  6. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    That Stephen is terrific (by Stephen standards) !
     
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  7. thejewk

    thejewk Well-Known Member

    Many thanks
     
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  8. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    ...Well, okay, for history, starting from William I, there's this, in approximate order by reign and period.
    Douglas, William the Conqueror. (1964 /paper, 1992. It's been in print that long Only because it's That Good.)
    Barlow, William Rufus. (1983 /paper 1990.)
    Green, Henry I. (2009, paper.)
    ...Stephen and the Anarchy have become a real growth industry in academic circles. Here are some (Davis and Crouch are personal favorites):
    Bradbury, Stephen and Matilda: The Civil War of 1139-53. (hb, 1996.)
    Crouch, The Reign of King Stephen. (paper, 2000.)
    Davis, King Stephen. (3rd. ed, paper, 1990.)
    Matthew, King Stephen. (paper, 2002.)
    For Henry II, this is on the same level as Douglas for William I:
    Warren, Henry II. (1973 /paper, 1998.)
     
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  9. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    That should fill up all those COVID hours at home for the rest of the pandemic !
     
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  10. thejewk

    thejewk Well-Known Member

    That look like an excellent list, many thanks. I'll get them bookmarked!
     
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