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<p>[QUOTE="Curtisimo, post: 8131526, member: 83845"]There has been some amazing discussion on this thread and it has taken me a day or so of thinking on it to process it. Thank you everyone!</p><p><br /></p><p>I figured I would make another diagram to cover some of the possibilities that have been discussed so far in regard to the monogram and the use of Greek letters.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1416410[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>I went to Wildwinds and looked through all of the cities along the west coast of the Black Sea to see if I could find the use of this specific monogram as a mintmark or control mark. No luck on an exact match but I did note that most of the cities used a variety of monograms on their coins. I am not an expert but I assume that the monograms are the initials of mint officials? Any experts feel free to chime in.</p><ul> <li>Olbia – ΟΛBIA – Monograms used<ul> <li><a href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/sarmatia/olbia/t.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/sarmatia/olbia/t.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/sarmatia/olbia/t.html</a></li> </ul></li> <li>Tyra – ΤΥΡΑ – Monograms used<ul> <li><a href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/sarmatia/tyra/t.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/sarmatia/tyra/t.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/sarmatia/tyra/t.html</a></li> </ul></li> <li>Istros – ΙΣΤΡΙΗ – Monograms used<ul> <li><a href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/istros/t.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/istros/t.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/istros/t.html</a></li> </ul></li> <li>Tomis – TOMI – Used at least one monogram that I could find on a 1st-2nd century BC bronze coin.<ul> <li><a href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/tomis/t.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/tomis/t.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/tomis/t.html</a></li> </ul></li> <li>Kallatis – KAΛΛATIA – Struck coins using monograms.<ul> <li><a href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/kallatis/t.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/kallatis/t.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/kallatis/t.html</a></li> </ul></li> <li>Odessos – ΟΔΗΣΙΤΩΝ – Multiple examples of monograms used on the coins<ul> <li><a href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/odessos/t.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/odessos/t.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/odessos/t.html</a></li> </ul></li> <li>Messembria - MEΣΑΜΒΡΙΑΝWΝ<ul> <li><a href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/mesembria/t.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/mesembria/t.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/mesembria/t.html</a></li> </ul></li> <li>Apollonia – AΠΟΛΛΩΝΙΑΤΩΝ – Multiple examples of monograms used on the coins<ul> <li><a href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/mesembria/t.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/mesembria/t.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/mesembria/t.html</a></li> </ul></li> <li>Dionysopolis – ΔΙΟΝΥCΟΠΟΛΙΤ – Monograms used on some coins<ul> <li><a href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/moesia/dionysopolis/t.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/moesia/dionysopolis/t.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/moesia/dionysopolis/t.html</a></li> </ul></li> </ul><p><br /></p><p>I also noted that <a href="https://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?search=Mithradates+stater&s=0&upcoming=0&results=100" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?search=Mithradates+stater&s=0&upcoming=0&results=100" rel="nofollow">many of these cities struck gold staters</a> for Mithridates IV that contain monograms with Greek letters. That means that any of these cities would have been more than capable or producing the Koson staters.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Fascinating! Is the thought that Thracians struck these with gold provided by Brutus or is the suggestion that Brutus struck the imitations? Imitations of staters of Mithridates IV would seem very relevant to the discussion. The central question seems to be whether the Koson staters are imitations in the same sense as your example or whether the pure gold monogram Koson's were issued by Brutus (or some other authority).</p><p><br /></p><p>It would be interesting to see a gold analysis of these imitations like your example to know if they were struck with the same refined gold as the monogram Kosons or the natural gold of the non-monogram Kosons.</p><p><br /></p><p>Thanks for sharing!</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Incredibly fascinating! I was not aware that there were other KΟΣΩΝ coins that were imitative of other types. I don't want to speculate too boldly here but it seems to me that the existence of this coin makes the "of the Consol" reading of KΟΣΩΝ unlikely. There is no connection to the type this coin is copying and a consol.</p><p><br /></p><p>That also seems to suggest that Koson is a name or a place. The translation of the coin description you link to says.</p><blockquote><p><i>"Here Koson imitates the tetradrachms of the Roman province of Macedonia. The addition 'Droueis' refers to the tribal affiliation of the Koson."</i></p></blockquote><p>The coin listing assumes that Koson is a Skythian king and the "Droueis" is his tribe. I wonder where they get this conclusion? I will have to do some searching and see if there are any known names of Skythian tribes that would match this.</p><p><br /></p><p>Koson as a place is something I haven't considered... interesting.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Curtisimo, post: 8131526, member: 83845"]There has been some amazing discussion on this thread and it has taken me a day or so of thinking on it to process it. Thank you everyone! I figured I would make another diagram to cover some of the possibilities that have been discussed so far in regard to the monogram and the use of Greek letters. [ATTACH=full]1416410[/ATTACH] I went to Wildwinds and looked through all of the cities along the west coast of the Black Sea to see if I could find the use of this specific monogram as a mintmark or control mark. No luck on an exact match but I did note that most of the cities used a variety of monograms on their coins. I am not an expert but I assume that the monograms are the initials of mint officials? Any experts feel free to chime in. [LIST] [*]Olbia – ΟΛBIA – Monograms used [LIST] [*][URL]https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/sarmatia/olbia/t.html[/URL] [/LIST] [*]Tyra – ΤΥΡΑ – Monograms used [LIST] [*][URL]https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/sarmatia/tyra/t.html[/URL] [/LIST] [*]Istros – ΙΣΤΡΙΗ – Monograms used [LIST] [*][URL]https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/istros/t.html[/URL] [/LIST] [*]Tomis – TOMI – Used at least one monogram that I could find on a 1st-2nd century BC bronze coin. [LIST] [*][URL]https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/tomis/t.html[/URL] [/LIST] [*]Kallatis – KAΛΛATIA – Struck coins using monograms. [LIST] [*][URL]https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/kallatis/t.html[/URL] [/LIST] [*]Odessos – ΟΔΗΣΙΤΩΝ – Multiple examples of monograms used on the coins [LIST] [*][URL]https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/odessos/t.html[/URL] [/LIST] [*]Messembria - MEΣΑΜΒΡΙΑΝWΝ [LIST] [*][URL]https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/mesembria/t.html[/URL] [/LIST] [*]Apollonia – AΠΟΛΛΩΝΙΑΤΩΝ – Multiple examples of monograms used on the coins [LIST] [*][URL]https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/mesembria/t.html[/URL] [/LIST] [*]Dionysopolis – ΔΙΟΝΥCΟΠΟΛΙΤ – Monograms used on some coins [LIST] [*][URL]https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/moesia/dionysopolis/t.html[/URL] [/LIST] [/LIST] I also noted that [URL='https://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?search=Mithradates+stater&s=0&upcoming=0&results=100']many of these cities struck gold staters[/URL] for Mithridates IV that contain monograms with Greek letters. That means that any of these cities would have been more than capable or producing the Koson staters. Fascinating! Is the thought that Thracians struck these with gold provided by Brutus or is the suggestion that Brutus struck the imitations? Imitations of staters of Mithridates IV would seem very relevant to the discussion. The central question seems to be whether the Koson staters are imitations in the same sense as your example or whether the pure gold monogram Koson's were issued by Brutus (or some other authority). It would be interesting to see a gold analysis of these imitations like your example to know if they were struck with the same refined gold as the monogram Kosons or the natural gold of the non-monogram Kosons. Thanks for sharing! Incredibly fascinating! I was not aware that there were other KΟΣΩΝ coins that were imitative of other types. I don't want to speculate too boldly here but it seems to me that the existence of this coin makes the "of the Consol" reading of KΟΣΩΝ unlikely. There is no connection to the type this coin is copying and a consol. That also seems to suggest that Koson is a name or a place. The translation of the coin description you link to says. [INDENT][I]"Here Koson imitates the tetradrachms of the Roman province of Macedonia. The addition 'Droueis' refers to the tribal affiliation of the Koson."[/I][/INDENT] The coin listing assumes that Koson is a Skythian king and the "Droueis" is his tribe. I wonder where they get this conclusion? I will have to do some searching and see if there are any known names of Skythian tribes that would match this. Koson as a place is something I haven't considered... interesting.[/QUOTE]
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