8 Reales Spanish Empire and Peninsulars for all

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by moneditis, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. sonlarson

    sonlarson World Silver Collector Supporter

    Here is one that's been around a while

    mexico 8 reales 1798 (2).jpg
     
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  3. Colonialjohn

    Colonialjohn Active Member

    All XRF analysis are from benchtop XRF devices although surface analysis is of course skewed and the central core of a coin is more accurate to the true alloy of the coin its unquestionably gives you the alloy used. I do SUGGEST these DUROS are probably not contemporary circulating counterfeits (CCCs) or FLASA's as I have compared issues that are IDENTICAL in their dies and even their die breaks. IMO these are either low silver inventory issues in these difficult times or the dies were used by counterfeiters making these brass and bronze issues. Discussed in my new book in the Chapter on Foreign CCCs.
     
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  4. RomanTheRussian

    RomanTheRussian Well-Known Member

    New pick-up at NYINC earlier in the month.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. moneditis

    moneditis Reales de a 8

  6. TommyP

    TommyP BS detector

    I have a Lima minted 8 reale for sale or trade should someone be interested.
     
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  7. Johnny Cache

    Johnny Cache New Member

  8. mackat

    mackat Well-Known Member

    Here's my first one, I just got it today! Does anyone know what that mark by the D might be?[​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  9. 01mikep

    01mikep Well-Known Member

    8 reales Question: I often see "stretch marks" on 8 reales coins, are these due to corrosion, minting process, counterfeiting error, or just poorly struck original coins?

    Example below. image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
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  10. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter**

    Mike, that is something which is called 'Plata Agria' in spanish. Translated literally: sour silver.
    Not an uncommon phenomena in the coining of Spanish colonial coins. It is related to improper cooling of the molten silver alloy, or to an improper alloy.

    Further explanation in the following link (sorry- in spanish)

    http://blognumismatico.com/2013/05/27/plata-agria/
     
  11. 01mikep

    01mikep Well-Known Member

    Thanks Eduardo,

    Explains a lot, great link. Last question, does it detract/reduce numismatic value/collectability or is it a non-issue. I live in Spain and see it a good bit but have steered clear as am uncertain.

    Mike
     
  12. mlov43

    mlov43 주화 수집가

    Thanks for the link! I'm always looking for non-English language forum sites and sources of coin information.
     
  13. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter**

    Good question. For me it would depend how badly the coin is affected. For example, how extensive the fissures are, and whether they affect both obverse and reverse.
    In my experience, they usually only affect one side of the coin and are restricted to a relatively small area of the planchet. In this case I do not see it affecting the value much.

    Another important point: plata agria is considered to be proof the coin is genuine.
    It is thought counterfeiters would find it very difficult to fake this feature convincingly. Therefore, a coin showing this is generally considered to be genuine.
     
  14. moneditis

    moneditis Reales de a 8

  15. Hispanicus

    Hispanicus Stand Fast!

    Moneditis,
    That is a very nice 8 reales pillar dollar. Unfortunately, I found out about the Jesus Vico auction to late to register, perhaps next time...
     
  16. Nathan401

    Nathan401 Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    It appears this guy spent some time underwater. 20160921_111652-1.jpg 20160921_111706-1.jpg
     
  17. RomanTheRussian

    RomanTheRussian Well-Known Member

    @Nathan401 - could be prolonged corrosion, or could be a poorly made counterfeit. Hard to tell without seeing it in-hand and running tests.

    Here's my recent eBay pick-up for under $300. PCGS AU58 with currently no MS examples certified there for that date. It's probably darker in-hand than the glamour shots from their imaging department, but knowing PCGS the luster should be all there. It's in transit to me right now.

    [​IMG]

    Will be replacing my existing 1793 AU53 example I picked up back in 2011.


    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Nathan401

    Nathan401 Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Oh, it's authentic. And yes, lots of saltwater corrosion .
     
  19. Colonialjohn

    Colonialjohn Active Member

    Mackat - Its a Chinese chop mark.

    01mikep - Its silver surface embrittlement which is caused by the stress of copper and silver in the same alloy. I discuss this in my new book Forgotten Coins due out this summer. Its normal environmental factors acting on the coin. It has nothing to do with an improper alloy mix or other type of error in manufacturing. Could be inhibited due to annealing. On this fact still not clear to me.

    Nathan - agreed. Could be either counterfeit or salt water corrosion but since its a 1783 Carolus III I am 99% certain its salt water corrosion since it was THE MOST common date in the Calzador Wreck.

    See Robert Gurney's book on Counterfeit 8 Reales at Amazon Books to assist you in easily identifying Portrait Counterfeits with other information. At least view the Table of Contents and then decide. Good luck ...

    John Lorenzo
    Numismatist
    United States
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
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  20. moneditis

    moneditis Reales de a 8

  21. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    @moneditis

    1. What is the link to your homepage. The links to the posts above take me to only the single coins.

    2. what is the name of your book?

    Eduard, posted: Another important point: plata agria is considered to be proof the coin is genuine. It is thought counterfeiters would find it very difficult to fake this feature convincingly. Therefore, a coin showing this is generally considered to be genuine."

    While this was true in the past, it is not anymore as even some crude fakes show stressed planchets with this characteristic.
     
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