42 mm Ptolemy Bronze described correctly?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Collect89, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Collect89

    Collect89 Coin Collector

    Hello everyone. :) This Ptolemy Bronze spoke to me Sunday at our local coin show. When it spoke, the words were muffled by the plastic between us. I'm pretty sure it was trying to say "buy me collect89". The legends were easy to read & the wear, style, & surfaces were pleasing. The design is a little soft in some areas but overall the coin is the result of a relatively good strike some 2,200 years ago.

    The only negative aspect of this coin may be that it resides in a fat-boy slab & is difficult to photograph. The coin is innocent so please don't hold the slab against the coin. Although the words are muffled, I believe I am hearing "free me collect89".

    Is my coin label below accurate? Is that ΛI between the eagle's legs? Is it from the Alexandria mint and Series 5? Any further info, corrections, & reference numbers would be appreciated.

    photo 1GGGg.JPG
    photo 1DDDd.JPG
    photo 5.JPG
    PTOLEMAIC KINGS OF EGYPT.
    Ptolemy IV Philopater
    222-205/4 BC.
    Æ Drachm, 42mm
    Alexandria mint, Series 5.
    Obv:
    Diademed head of Zeus-Ammon right.
    Rev: ΠΤΟΛΕΜΑΙΟΥ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ; Eagle with closed wings standing left on thunderbolt; ΛI between legs.
    Grade: gVF as described by NGC slab. Pleasing dark chocolate color with good surface & strike (not described on the NGC slab).

    By the way, the coin's surfaces are really quite nice & my photos have not captured it. We may get some better photos when the coin is free of the plastic. In the mean time, Let's see some photos of your Ptolemy pond skippers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
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  3. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    Congrats with your new hockeypuck, collect89

    description is OK, its actually a cornucopia series 5 , add cornucopia in front of eagle (for the Alexandria mint) cat nr. Svoronos 1125, the weight should be around 68 gram

    Here's one of my Ptolemy bronze:

    P1210977.JPG
     
    Chris B, Publius, randygeki and 10 others like this.
  4. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    Very nice, I look forward to seeing it outside its tomb!

    Every time I post my pond skipper I paint a big fat target on my back... :bucktooth:

    Screen Shot 2018-07-18 at 12.11.15 PM.jpg
    Ptolemy III Euergetes (246-222 BC) octobol, Æ46, 93.27g, ex Dattari
     
  5. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Supporter! Supporter

    Great coin with nice style, how much does it weigh?
     
    Collect89 likes this.
  6. dadams

    dadams Supporter! Supporter

    Nice Score! Every collection should have one of these, hope to see it cracked soon.

    Here is my big one:
    [​IMG]
    Ptolemy III - 38mm, 5.8mm thick, and 46.5g (Svoronos 974)
     
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  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Nice @Collect89 ! Fun to find great finds at a show, AND to have some time with buddy @Ancientnoob ! Your pond skipper looks great. Can I identify? I am no expert, so I cannot really go much further than you have.

    I have a few of those pigs of bronze...

    Egypt Ptolemy III AE Tet 41mm 7.2mm thick 67.5g Zeus Ammon Eagle Cornucopia XP Chi-Rho.jpg
    Egypt Ptolemy III AE Tet 41mm 7.2mm thick 67.5g Zeus Ammon Eagle Cornucopia XP Chi-Rho

    Egypt Ptolemy IV 221-205 BC AE Tet 40mm 7.2mm thick 69.5g Zeus Ammon Eagle.jpg
    Egypt Ptolemy IV 221-205 BC AE Tet 40mm 7.2mm thick 69.5g Zeus Ammon Eagle

    Egypt Ptolemy IV 221-205 BC AE 33mm 35g HemiDrachm Zeus-Ammon Eagle Tbolt.jpg
    Egypt Ptolemy IV 221-205 BC AE 33mm 35g HemiDrachm Zeus-Ammon Eagle Tbolt

    Egypt Ptolemy IV 221-205 BC AE 37mm 42g Drachm Zeus-Ammon Eagle Tbolt SV 974.jpg
    Egypt Ptolemy IV 221-205 BC AE 37mm 42g Drachm Zeus-Ammon Eagle Tbolt SV 974

    upload_2018-7-18_16-33-42.png
    Egypt Ptolemy III 245-222 BC AE 34mm 31g HemiDrachm Zeus-Ammon Eagle Tbolt Cornucopia XP Chi-Rho SV 965
     
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  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    Sigh. Such a great coin and I'm trying very hard to restrain my jealousy :).

    I hear it too!! Wow, that sound carries a long long way :D

    I see ΔI.

    You probably already know but PtolemyBronze is the best online resource for attributing and learning about these coins. Not long ago the ID/denomination page was updated to reflect current scholarship. I need to go through my coins because some of the attributions have changed. I haven't looked for yours on that page.

    Anyway, very nice purchase!

    Here's a group shot of my Ptolemy bronzes:. Sizes range from 48 mm (91.8 gm) to 14 mm (1.7 gm). The second largest coin shown is 42 mm.

    [​IMG]

    My smallest coin (5 mm) atop my largest Ptolemaic coin:

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    I think I should remeasure my diameter... given your collection, TIF jealousy is such a magnificent achievement that I want to turn the screws even more... :jimlad::shame::shy::oops:

    More seriously, what do you folks regard as best practice for measuring diameter? I usually record the widest point of the natural flan, i.e. excluding sprues, splits, etc. This doesn't seem to get discussed much.
     
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  10. NLL

    NLL Well-Known Member

    Got to love such big coins.
     
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  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I agree with your measuring system. My 89.96g shrimp is also 46mm. Diameters change according to how hard the hammer came down. It is quite possible that your coin is only 46mm and still the heaviest one.
     
  12. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    Good question. If a coin is markedly out of round, I measure the widest and narrowest diameters and record it that way. Otherwise, usually measure the widest diameter, excluding any big sprue remnants or goobers.
     
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  13. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    Thanks for the confirmation of measurement procedure, @dougsmit and @TIF. He was already home for a visit, so I can confirm the 46mm. I suggest that TIF should try to move the goalposts. Diameter is what counts, right?!

    Ew. :yuck:
     
  14. Collect89

    Collect89 Coin Collector

    Thanks for the info & kind coin words everyone. Here is my edited label for the coin:

    PTOLEMAIC KINGS OF EGYPT
    Ptolemy IV Philopater
    Æ Drachm
    222-205/4 B.C.

    67.77 grams, 42 mm
    Obv: Diademed head of Zeus-
    Ammon right.
    Rev: ΠΤΟΛΕΜΑΙΟΥ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ; Eagle
    with closed wings standing left
    on thunderbolt, cornucopia in
    front, ΛI between legs.
    Grade: gVF described by NGC slab.
    Pleasing dark chocolate color
    with good surface & strike
    (not described on NGC slab)
    Other: Alexandria mint, Series 5,
    Svoronos 1125. From Eye
    Appealing Coins 7/15/18.

    Unfortunately, I lost my photo editor program when we updated the computer operating system. I've recently loaded Corel Paintshop Pro 2018 but have not yet learned to use it.
     
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  15. NLL

    NLL Well-Known Member

    What would be a decent price to expect to pay for a Ptolemy bronze?
     
  16. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    Depends on the size/denomination, strike, wear, etc.

    If you have a paid account with ACsearch you can check recent auction prices there. Even if you don't have a paid account, you can often locate coins on ACsearch and then check the price realized directly on the auctioneer's website.

    CNG's archives are another valuable resource and it's free to use. Here's the very broad search result for the search terms "AE Ptolemy" and for "AE Ptolemaic". The results will include some silver and other items because "ae" is part of other words sometimes found in Ptolemaic coin listings.

    To check current "retail" offerings, run a similar search on Vcoins.

    Also run the search on eBay and check the Sold box under Advanced Search.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
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  17. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    20180719_131152.jpg
    20180719_131212.jpg

    I use a KOBALT digital micrometer that my son gave me several years ago. He used one where he worked and thought it far better than what I was using. I agree.
    20180719_132039.jpg
    I measure the diameter several times and record the largest and smallest numbers. I normally "report" the largest number when posting here. The coin above is 21.2 X 19.2 mm and 3.76 grams. If the two are significantly different, I report both. Your coin would get a thickness reading. Alex and Owl tets deserve a thickness reading.

    When measuring thick coins, I also report the largest thickness. Most of my items that have a thickness are cast bronze.
    4.6.16 009.JPG 4.6.16 006.JPG 4.9.16 002.JPG
     
  18. RomanGreekCoin3

    RomanGreekCoin3 Active Member

    Cool!
     
  19. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Very neat coin.
    00p4.JPG 100_4839.JPG 860_522469487789967_610866663_n.jpg IMG_3978.jpg IMG_2765.JPG o_027.JPG
     
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  20. Collect89

    Collect89 Coin Collector

    I still haven't learned to use my new photo editing program but here are some slightly better photos:
    photo 6A.JPG photo 7A.JPG
     
  21. Pellinore

    Pellinore Supporter! Supporter

    My three large Ptolemies (as of today). 46, 40 and 38 mm, 92, 67 and 50 gr.

    Pto.jpg
     
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