3 New Ssssss Countermarks: Sillyon, Sicily and Septimius Severus

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Marsyas Mike, Sep 7, 2020.

  1. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Hope you all have been having a nice Labor Day weekend - despite the rumored hotdog shortage. As if we didn't have enough problems already!

    It's been a while since I've inflicted countermarks on you folks, but these three are new and I got the countermark fever again. They are a sibilant bunch, Sssssssillyon Septimius and Sicily:

    A Delta and NIKO on this very worn Provincial of Septimius Severus.

    CM - Nikopolis on Sept Sev. Aug 2020 (0).jpg

    Septimius Severus Æ 28 Pentassaria
    Moesia Inferior,
    Nikopolis ad Istrum
    (c. 193-211 A.D. ?)

    AV KAI Λ CE [CEVHΡOC?], laureate head right / Illegible reverse, faint letters.
    Host: Unknown Roman provincial, Nikopolis or Pautalia?
    (8.91 grams / 28 x 25 mm)

    Countermarks:
    CM 1:
    Δ incuse 7 x 6 mm. Howgego 782 (3 pcs); denotes denomination, pentassaria.

    CM 2: NIKO incuse 14 x 5 mm. Howgego 553 (3 pcs, 2 of which are on the reverse).
    Note: All coins that have the Δ c/m apparently also bear the NIKO c/m...
    FORVM Collection Automan.

    Here is a neat little countermark of a lyre (a chelys, technically, made from a tortoise shell) from Sillyon. The eBay seller attributed it to Smyrna, with Homer seated on the back, which is not correct - you can see the eagle in Zeus's hand, and some of the legend. it took a while, but I tracked down Sillyon, a place I'd never heard of:

    CM - Sillyon lyre Aug 2020 (0).jpg

    Pamphylia, Sillyon Æ 17
    (c. 300-100 B.C.)

    Laureate head of Apollo right / ΣΕΛΥΝ[ΙΥΣ] Zeus seated left, holding eagle and scepter, thunderbolt in field left.
    SNG France 956; SNG Cop. 437
    Countermark: chelys (lyre) in 7 x 5 mm rectangle. No. ref.
    (4.07 grams / 17 mm)

    Countermark:
    Found only one countermarked Sillyon but not a chelys. This countermark similar to
    those found on Bithynia Æs for Prusias "cf. SNG von Aulock 6881 (for countermarks)." (CNG Web Shop via acsearch)

    Finally, a chopped-down, counterstamped (obv. and rev.) follis for Byzantine Sicily:

    CM - Byz Heraclius SC sicily Aug 2020 (0a).jpg
    Byzantine Empire Æ Follis
    Heraclius & Her. Constantine
    (c. 632-641 A.D.)
    Sicilian Mint
    Host coin:
    Probably cut-down follis of Heraclius?
    Counterstamp: Two busts, Heraclius & Her. Constantine / RTh mongram SCs in circle
    SB 884; DOC II part 1 243.
    (5.86 grams / 22 x 19 mm)

    Please share your countermarks. I like looking at them.
     
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  3. Orielensis

    Orielensis Supporter! Supporter

    Interesting countermarks!

    Here is a rather shabby Thessalian AE from Metropolis that I'm keeping only for the eagle countermark on the obverse. The type is often found with that countermark (see BCD Thessaly II, lot 483.1–3). Its significance is not certain but there might be some interesting historical background: "A suggestion has been made that this countermark could reflect a Ptolemaic involvement in the affairs of mainland Greece during the reign of Ptolemy III" (Yannis Stoyas: Wheat-Ears and Owls. Remarks on Thessalian Coins with Countermarks (2019), p. 64).

    Magna Graecia – Thessalien, Metropoliton, AE, Apollo und Bulle (mit Gegenstempel).png
    Thessaly, Metropolis, AE 21, ca. 300–190 BC. Obv: head of Apollo, laureate, r. (countermark: eagle standing r.). Rev: ΜΗ[ΤΡΟΠ]ΟΛΙΤΩΝ; forepart of man-headed bull left, head r. 21mm, 6.59g. Ref: BMC 3; Sear Greek 2152; SNG Copenhagen 175.
     
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  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    Denotes denomination? Yes but pentassaria means five. Δ would be four. Does Howgego say this?
     
  5. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Fun thread, @Marsyas Mike ! Cool coins! You say you have a fever ...

    Countermark Fever.jpg

    Here are some of my countermarked coins, posted because of sibilance.

    Severus Alexander from Seleukeia:
    [​IMG]
    Severus Alexander AD 222-235.
    Roman provincial Æ 24 mm, 9.19 g.
    Cilicia, Seleukeia ad Kalykadnon.
    Obv: AV K M AVP CEOVH AΛEΞANΔPOC, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right.
    Rev: CEΛEVKEΩN KAΛVΚA-ΔNΩ, confronted, draped, and laureate busts of Apollo and Artemis, c/m: o within Δ within triangular incuse.
    Ref: Ziegler 474-476; SNG France 2 1009; SNG Levante 761; SNG Levante Suppl. 195; SNG Pfalz 1056-61; Waddington 4468; Lindgren III 898; RPC Online VI 7043. Countermark: Howgego 670.

    Trajan from Seleucis and Pieria in Syria:

    [​IMG]
    Trajan, AD 98-117.
    Roman Provincial Æ 29 mm, 15.86 g, 12 h.
    Syria, Seleucis and Pieria, Antioch, AD 115-116.
    Obv: ΑΥΤΟΚΡ ΚΑΙϹ ΝΕΡ ΤΡΑΙΑΝΟϹ ΑΡΙϹΤ ϹΕΒ ΓΕΡΜ ΔΑΚ, laureate head, right. Countermark: laurel branch in incuse rectangle, Howgego 378 (69 sp.).
    Rev: S·C in laurel wreath; Є below.
    Refs: RPC III 3616; cf. BMC 20, p. 185, 286 (with same countermark); Wruck 196; McAlee 489(e).

    Trajan struck for use in Syria:

    [​IMG]
    Trajan. A.D. 98-117.
    Roman orichalcum as, 8.49 g, 23.5 mm, 6 h.
    Struck in Rome for circulation in Syria (?); Struck in Antioch (?), AD 115/16.
    Obv: IMP CAES NER TRAIANO OPTIMO AVG GERM, radiate and draped bust right; c/m: bucranium within incuse punch.
    Rev: DAC PARTHICO P M TR POT XX COS VI P P around laurel wreath enclosing large SC.
    Refs: RIC 647; BMCRE 1094; Cohen 123; RCV 3243; Woytek 937v; McAlee 509; Strack 479; BN 953-5. For c/m: Pangerl 63; Howgego 294.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
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  6. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thanks for noticing my error, Doug. Whenever I try to attribute a coin, I "triangulate" from various sources. The source where I got pentassaria is from a Vcoin listing:

    https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/in...lta_and_punched_with_niko/164599/Default.aspx

    My shaky grasp of Greek denominations/alphabet is showing!
     
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  7. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    I really like that eagle, Orielensis. The fact it is a bit on the lower-grade side just shows it works hard - and countermarks often got a workout. This is just the kind of coin I like in my collection.

    Here is an eagle countermark I've never been able to attribute - it does not appear to be a Ptolemaic type, however

    CM - Eagle & Unk lot of 2 June 2019a (0).jpg

    Unknown Æ 25
    Æ host (as size?); too worn to identify.
    Countermark: Eagle, wings spread (dotted border?) in 12 mm circle.
    (9.98 grams / 25 mm)
     
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  8. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member


    You definitely got the fever, RC. Those are some lovely countermarks - I veered close to one of those Syrian laurel branches recently, but got outbid, alas. The other two are pretty spectacular as well.

    And way to go keeping the SSSSSSSS's theme hissing along.
     
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  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Fun countermarks, @Marsyas Mike ! I would enjoy focusing on these, sometime.

    upload_2020-9-7_10-1-52.png
    Augustus As four countermarks 25-23 mm 9.8g TICA AVG probably for Tiberius Augustus CE14-37 Dolphin
    Ex: @Valentinian
     
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  10. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    This is an exceptionally nice example, Alegandron. I have a couple of these, but none of mine show the reverse dolphin very clearly - a lot of them don't.

    This is about as pretty as they get in my collection - no dolphin at all, as far as I can see:

    CM - TICAE AVG Helment lot Aug 2019 (0).jpg
     
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  11. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    I have another, I thought was interesting History. It is possibly countermarked by the Pirates fighting Pompey, as he was kicking their butts...

    upload_2020-9-7_10-20-6.png
    Cilicia - Tarsos turret counterstamped Bow Pompey Pirates AE 19 164 BCE Tyche-Zeus seated
     
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  12. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    One I got from FORVM years back, because I thought the countermark looked cool.

    Tarsos, Cilicia, c. 164 - 37 B.C.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Ryro

    Ryro The last of the Diadochi Supporter

    I sssure love thossse countermarks!
    Here'sss sssome more...
    20190326_131017_2290A057-16DC-415B-A500-F568E99434F7-406-000000A00EC8030D.png 20190628_185337_FBE96F3C-2808-4530-BBFA-F68DC8DFA1A6-985-00000125FE2BDE01.png 20190326_172150_ACE5DBD0-870B-4974-9441-1B8D7515863A-406-000000E6E32D723A.png 20190426_085915_03A253B1-617B-4536-A9E8-304E39AFE87B-354-0000001A46CDFE52.png 20190326_103332_07ACE17A-F632-45AD-B39C-3ABAE2B08D3D-406-00000078A62F22F8.png 20190628_185302_D85C9FE5-54DF-4079-9621-4753225C54AF-985-00000125CC17F4DD.png 20190326_145904_4DC4365F-6664-4F28-BB99-E59877BBF24E-406-000000BFB487239B.png 20190327_143934_D12C4343-88AB-460F-B295-A86C2B89922D-469-00000087EA7F12FB.png 20190326_113902_A475C04F-3F88-4BF3-807B-61D128F4F709-406-0000008E85D006B5.png 20190626_095429_FBEB85CE-3B09-4088-B817-19DBB0899F9C-1028-000000D28A1D6CFD.png
     
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  14. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    That is a nice one, Alegandron. This is mine - kind of grimy. I recently passed on a nice one on eBay - I waited too long, unfortunately.

    CM - Tarsus - countermark bow and case Oct 2018 (0).jpg
     
  15. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member


    That is a handsome example, lordmarcovan - I like the two-tone green. I have a couple of these - I don't mind accumulating duplicate countermarks since they tend to vary so much in appearance:

    CM - Cilicia Tarsos cm Nov 2018 (0).jpg

    CM - Cilicia, Tarsos - AE20 Tyche & pyre of Sandan CM Helios $17.50 Jul. 2018 (0).jpg
     
  16. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Ryro, that is an awe-inspiring collection of countermarks. I have questions about a couple of them:

    #4 - anchor
    #5 - owl
    #8 - ? I don't know what's going on there.

    A lot of times I have trouble attributing countermarks - I have a fairly large collection of "mysteries" that I take out from time to time to see if any new info comes up. Those three in your collection do not look familiar to me - the owl does, but not necessarily on that host.

    For instance, here's a mysterious NE countermark - I like how it looks, but know nothing about it.
    CM - NE in Oval Lot Dec 2019 (0).jpg


    Here is one of those Vindex Rebellion countermarks - like the last in your post:

    CM Vindex countermark PR Jun 2019 (0).jpg


    Vindex Rebellion Æ (As?)
    Moesia, Thrace or Gaul
    (c. March-June 68 A.D.)

    Agrippa or Nero head left (?) /Victory (?) standing right; Æ as (or barbaric imitation?) too worn to ID.
    Countermark: PR (Populus Romanus) in rectangular punch
    Pangerl 87; Howgego 599 (?).
    (6.55 grams / 27 x 26 mm)

    Populus Romanus - The Roman People. This countermark was used by the rebels in Gaul under the leadership of Julius Vindex during the months of March-June
    68 A.D.

    eBay seller note: "This coin is part of a lot I bought on CNG Coins Auction 443
    Lot 735"
     
  17. Ryro

    Ryro The last of the Diadochi Supporter

    You got the first 2. #8 is a Corinthian helmet. Tilt your screen left by 15 degrees or so to see it:woot:
    Thanks again for the heads up on those wonderful and rare Vindex RRs!
    Here's a hellenistic apollo w/ leaf or feather
    20190326_152511_6222E38B-98AB-4B64-B807-EFF1B691A6DD-406-000000C876B1F441.png
     
  18. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    I was amused by the countermark on this one - Young beardless Herakles over the bust of an old bearded Herakles.

    [​IMG]BITHYNIA, Herakleia Pontika
    AE19. 4.63g, 19.5mm. BITHYNIA, Herakleia Pontika, circa 235-175 BC. SNG Stancomb 827 = Stancomb, Autonomous p. 21, 7a A4/P10, pl. 3, 35 (this coin); SNG BM Black Sea 1631; HGC 7, 489. O: Bearded head of Herakles right, wearing lion skin headdress; c/m: head of young Herakles right. R: ΗΡΑΚΛΕΩ-TAN, lion prancing right; boukranion between forelegs, monogram above, club below.
    Ex William Stancomb Collection
     
  19. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member


    Another countermark I've never seen - I like how the countermark is oriented the same way as the portrait - sometimes countermarks seem to have been placed with some care.

    For instance, the Atigonas Gonatas "helmet" countermarks are always neatly placed over the helmet obverse:

    Macedon - Antigonas Gonatas countermark Dec 18-Jan 19 (0).jpg
     
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  20. Edessa

    Edessa Well-Known Member

    This was a Persian Siglos at one time - I think.

    zzzb.jpg
     
  21. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

     
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