Hello, I am looking at photos of this beautiful 1798 Draped Bust dollar with Heraldic Eagle on reverse. Its also a pointed 9, 4 lines major variety. I think the coin looks really attractive, just because I love this design and the wear on this is very limited. But I would like to get a second opinion on its surface quality. When I look at the obverse in particular I am seeing something in front of her face that almost looks like porous areas. It also has some scratches, but I am wondering about the different colored patina and wondered if this could be signs of old cleaning or environmental damage? Thanks for any comments or assessment of this photo.
That looks to me like mottled toning. That is does, but it is up to you to determine if they disturb the eye appeal enough for you to regret buying it. It just looks like normal toning. Due to the lack of luster, I’d say it has been dipped. A coin with this much detail should have luster. The surfaces don’t have the glossy look of a coin subjected to an abrasive cleaning.
Is it slabbed or raw? (ie, am I looking through plastic or not?) If slabbed what is it graded ? I love these early US coinage. I've been trying to build a collection of them myself.
It’s in the raw as far as I have understood. Also - can anyone spot the exact die variety on this? Thanks again for your comments
That is a $10,000 coin, and you're going to purchase it raw from some pictures on the internet? And you're asking a bunch of random strangers for a second opinion? Are you out of your mind?
While it looks genuine to me, there are some fakes out there thaat are extremely good. So good that they even fool NGC and PCGS. You need to buy this coin slabbed just for their guarantee of authenticity.
No, I am not out of my mind. I have not said that I am planning on purchasing it. I am just asking some open and objective questions regarding its surface quality. I always appreciate inputs from others.
I share your concern about counterfeit coins, and have seen a fair share of these on e.g. Alibaba. After listening to Beth Deisher on CoinWeek I didn't get less concerned about the overflow of fakes in the market. https://coinweek.com/coinweek-podca...fronting-counterfeit-coins-with-beth-deisher/ Anyways, I might be naïve, but I think it would be sad if the trust in the marked is or become so low that we have to completely ignore raw material. Someone has to be the first ones to submit these coins eventually anyways And for this particular coin, its authenticity is guaranteed by the owner (not private) giving some extra security for the potential buyer.
It saddens me as well. In this scenario, I would offer to send it in on my dime and buy the coin based on whatever it grades. At $10000, I would like the hard guarantee of authenticity PCGS/NGC offers. Plus it is MUCH easier to sell than raw. A hard buy-back guarantee is nice, but only if it is written down and the seller is still alive.
There's been a few threads here of very intricate counterfeits. I went searching but can't find it. It's from one of the top counterfeit ppl out there I think. Still searching, but counterfeits can even deceive the very best. If this was raw I would be 100% hesitant on purchasing it and rather buy it slabbed. Or recommend the seller get it slabbed first and you'd cover all slabbing costs as long as they provide the documentation to you and you can confirm it.
Did the OP say he was purchasing the coin? It rather seems to me he is offering it up for our observation and comments.
possibly, when I first saw it I didn't like how the date's 7,9 & 8 are just so "perfect" in minting, color and surfaces compared to everything else.
No question.... My knee jerk reaction is "too good to be true".... And I don't think a definitive observation can be made until this one is in some TPG plastic.
All true. nowadays we have to be super weary too. In the old days counterfeits were easy to identify. Nowadays it can be very difficult. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1797-s-139-large-cent-suspect-examples-and-initial-research.319271/ @Jack D. Young might have some input.
There are some notable differences between this coin and the 1798 examples on Photograde, particularly on the reverse. Whether that suggests counterfeiting or is due to variations among dies, I can't say because I have no expertise with this issue.
Probably 75% of certified bust dollars have been cleaned somehow in their past. If this one was dipped, it's been retoning for quite some time. The die pair looks legitimate (BB-105).