Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by Jeff Callahan, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    You can learn a lot here but you gotta be strong enough to put up with our humor.:)
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  3. Jeff Callahan

    Jeff Callahan Active Member

    I meant no disrespect. I am just new to this and keep getting excited for nothing, it seems. LOL. Just gotta keep up the hunt I guess. Thanks.
  4. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I understand and never thought you showed any disrespect. I've been a collector for over 60 years. There's so much to learn you just can't learn it all.
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  5. enamel7

    enamel7 Junior Member

    I wasn't referring to you. You can learn a lot here and by going to other official sites. The majority of people that post videos about coins are ignorant.
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  6. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    Wexler provides an explanation of how a doubled die can occur during the single press method in the following link. Its toward the middle


    While you can debate whether Class IX doubling is true doubling or is a variation of mechanical doubling, it is on the die as manufactured, not due to loose equipment during the striking process, so IMO its a doubled die. That being said, based on Wexlers explanation, I don't see their being a lot of interest (and therefore value) in Class IX doubling.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  7. NathanD

    NathanD Cherrypicker

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  8. NathanD

    NathanD Cherrypicker

    Anyway, for those of you are searching through modern zincolns for doubled dies, the minor varieties are quite common at the moment and easy to find. And there are some notable varieties which show some really nice spread which can sell for a decent premium. I have a little over 100 minor modern doubled dies, mostly doubled die reverses from '99 to '09, but I also have the 2014 VP-001 or Coneca DDO-003 which ngc can verify, and a nice 2019 DDO-008 which can be seen in my profile pick. I also found a 2020 WDDO-001 which has some pretty easy to see doubling in ERTY. Anyway, the moral of the story is, thy are out there and some do carry some premiums. If you can find a 2004 FS-801 or a 2014 FS-101, you could turn them for a nice profit. There is a decent market for these modern varieties, and the price is gradually increasing. The most common of modern doubled dies, as I said are the ddr's, most selling for between $2 and $10.
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  9. Amos 811

    Amos 811 DisMember

    NGC says attributed to a crappy die, not doubled. ANACS...no comment.
  10. thomas mozzillo

    thomas mozzillo Supporter! Supporter

    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
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  11. Cliff Reuter

    Cliff Reuter Member

    Soooo... Even though all of the slabbing companies attribute them (think FS#'s ladies and gents) and the attribution services (CopperCoins, DoubledDies and Variety Vista) list them, there can't be modern coins produced by a "real" doubled die?

    Sounds like anything less than an EDS coin in MS70 is simply damaged merchandise to some collectors?

    Doubled Dies can and do happen in a number of ways. That is why we are up to Class 9, I believe. Some collectors feel class 6 doubling is a waste of time but there is no debate on whether it is hub doubling. Personally, I like class 6 doubling but find it taxing to attribute sometimes.

    Some collectors don't "believe" doubled dies can happen in the single squeeze process and that's their prerogative (even though expert numismatists have explained and accepted them). Don't spoil it for newer collectors starting out, where this may be the only opportunity for them to be able to collect true doubled dies without spending a fortune. This hobby is about the thrill of the hunt and being able to actually find some varieties is a great way to reward the effort.
  12. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    The "class 9 Doubled dies" and other "smeared die doubling" , "Stuttered die doubling" . etc. was ( IMO). to allow certain "verification ,naming, and listing" magazines and internet posters, to continue their markets. A stuttered , vibrating , or slipped die causing effect is due to Machine action and not a die squeezing error by a human mint worker which was not caught by a mint examiner, as are all real doubled die up to that time. I suspect the mint realized it was in their favor so they could keep making ........... and people would take it out of circulation and not spend it , so they can make more. Perhaps next will be the acceptance of hand stamps of facial outlines, social organizations, states ,. struck by a hammer and punch, so clearly a "doubled die". If they would call it anything other than a doubled die. fine!, but it will never be one, IMO, I realize many disagree and thats OK, but newcomers should not be sucked into such and believe they are of same rarity and value as 1-8.
    IMO, Jim
  13. Cliff Reuter

    Cliff Reuter Member

    A doubled working die has been defined long before I arrived in 2013 as doubling to the working die that occurs during the hubbing process.

    Do you believe that class 6 doubled dies are doubled dies since they are "smeared"?

    Some of these modern doubled dies are created by human intervention. It has been reported/witnessed by experts on a tour of the mint, that a mint employee confirmed they stop the single squeeze on occasion to re-align the working hub on the working die. This was determined to be how some of the modern doubled dies occur.

    And IMHO, counter stamping coins or other Post Strike Damage wouldn't be part of the die making process, although there are collectors that like them.

    You've probably got decades more experience than I do, but I respectfully disagree about newcomers being "sucked in". Being there myself in 2013 I was looking for stability and uniformity of information. There was lots to digest and learn (I still am), but speculating about the reasons for why "they" agreed to add a class of doubling isn't helpful to newer members. BTW- I don't recall anyone mentioning these modern doubled dies being extremely valuable, although some are hard to find (Rare, maybe?).

    You may not like this class but please let's keep the information consistent to keep from confusing newer collectors.
    (This is the point where my wife asks me to get off my soapbox.:muted: )
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