2009 Dollar Bill Misprint

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by gags14, Nov 28, 2011.

  1. saltysam-1

    saltysam-1 Junior Member

    I had to look back in my gallery to find the photograph of my error note. You can see the offset on my note and how much more the OP has on his note. I aquired this one for twice face. A total of about $100. P1010025.jpg
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  3. tonedcoins

    tonedcoins New Member

    The correct term for this error is "Offset Printing" error. However, we don't know if it's real and we can't tell unless certified or in hand. These are made easily with an image reversal software and are sold on ebay all the time. To find out if it is authentic, you have to study it very closely (under magnification). Under magnification (if fake), a faint dot matrix pattern is apparent and the color bears a brownish hue.

    To find an error like that out of pocket change with such a dramatic design is close to impossible. A uncirculated piece like that can demand a couple of hundred bucks so it wouldn't circulate without notice (IMO). A "first impression transfer" of the entire front across the back is pretty rare so because of these circumstances, I too believe it is not an authentic error.

    I can always be wrong though :D
  4. gags14

    gags14 New Member

    All thanks for the help so far.
    I have contacted Denlys of Boston and waiting to here back from them.
    All i can say is i know very little about coins and paper money to even know where to begin about making a fake bill.
    I got this for change at a TD's and then almost gave it to a Dunkin Donuts the next day until i noticed it before i handed it over to the cashier.
    Tbud went you state CA block i can assume this is the first and last letter on the serial number? Also CU vs AU? thanks
  5. krispy

    krispy krispy

    CU and AU refer to different grades. There are many books and web sites to learn about these, but the two sites I keep pointing you to PMG and PCGS Currency have their grading standards published online for your reference and learning.

    PMG Grading Scale

    PCGS Currency Grading Scale

    CA is indeed the reference to the Serial Number block. You can learn a lot about the serial numbers of FRNs and other notes at this site: US Paper Money

  6. tbudwiser

    tbudwiser Active Member

    The problem with your "impossible to find in circulation" theory is the fact that this is the newest most current series of $1 FRN's being released into circulation and an error note has to start somewhere, don't it? In other words, this note hasn't really spent a significant amount of time in circulation to be noticed... Why is it so hard to believe that he got one in change? Why is it so hard to believe that he is the original owner of the newest series of $1 FRN error? You can even tell that the note is brand new. I bet that was even the second or third transaction just because of the current state of the notes, and $1 FRN's wear out fast.

    Thats just my opinions on it though. It looks real to me and I'm stand by my original comment that I believe this is a ligitimate US $1 FRN Series 2009 Philadelphia CA face to back offset printing error.


  7. krispy

    krispy krispy

    I'm sorry but basing your trust on these flimsy images shows you know far too little to be giving supportive advice of the OPs note as authentic. You're being far too naive through your enthusiasm and may well be guiding the understanding and hopes of the OP in the wrong direction. The rest of us are shedding some very real doubt on the matter and no one is saying it is totally impossible of being authentic, but given the evidence so far, there is nothing to support it is authentic and doubt free. The OP needs to seek the council of professionals with the note in hand and can then report back what he learns from them. Only then should we celebrate his find or trust our experienced instincts to suspect such notes when they appear.
  8. tbudwiser

    tbudwiser Active Member

    Fair enough.:eek:

  9. Numbers

    Numbers Senior Member

    Got an email about this, so I might as well reply here.... :rolleyes:

    As errors go, an offset transfer is pretty common. So I don't think it'd do any good to start comparing block letters; errors of this kind almost surely exist in every block. (There's a thought...somebody ought to try to collect a block set of these things--I don't believe I've seen such a set put together before.) They're not like mismatched serial errors, which tend to be printed very rarely but in fairly large batches; for those, it's helpful to compile a list of known serial ranges for the errors.

    While nobody can authenticate any note from images alone, I don't see any reason to doubt this note's genuineness based on the images. The fakes on Ebay are generally pretty obvious (deliberately, I suspect: the Ebay fraudsters want to be sure they're only dealing with un-knowledgeable buyers, who won't recognize the note as a fake even when they get it in hand, and hence won't report the fraud to Ebay). On the OP's note, the correct parts of the face image do (and do not) appear on the back, the size of the offset design is correct, the color isn't obviously wrong, the usual canvas-like texture of the offset is easily visible.... If this is a fake, it's a remarkably well-done one. So I'd say that this note is very likely to be a genuine error.

    I don't think it's surprising that the note circulated. The error is entirely on the back side of the note, so it's easy to see how the note could pass through several hands without the error being spotted. Even things like inverted overprints are not infrequently found in circulated condition.

    If you plan on trying to sell the note on the 'Net, then yes, you might want to get it certified first; otherwise many potential buyers won't take it seriously. But a better approach might be to sell it to a local dealer or collector who knows errors and can authenticate it himself when he has it in hand. That way you save yourself the TPG fees, which would amount to a nontrivial fraction of the note's value. And if you're planning to keep the note for your own collection, then I definitely wouldn't bother with having it TPG'd (but that's just me).
  10. tbudwiser

    tbudwiser Active Member

    The information you have provided here is surely what I've been basing my statements about the error being genuine, but because so many people on this thread seem to think I am wrong for that and that I am being naive, I decided to back down and wait for the note to just get seen and authenticated. As you said, the fakes are obvious, if you know how to spot them. I must admit, I was probably amature to think that finding more from the same block could help to authenticate it because I didn't think about how errors like these are only usually a few here and there from all sorts of different blocks and series. As I said before; I am going to stick by my original opinion that this note is a genuine error and I am not being naive in suggesting this, yet smart in being able to tell fakes because of extensive research I have done on offsets that people on here don't seem to understand. The 'poor' pictures aren't poor at all for myself on my laptop and this is for sure. They are actually quite clean and nice and for the most part, I am able to prematurely determin that this is a legitimate US $1 error note.

  11. gags14

    gags14 New Member

    OK i didnt mean to cause such a stir. Like i said i am not a collector at all and just wanted info. I thank all that has provided this. I have contacted Denlys of Boston but have not heard back. I am trying to get this to someone that can see it in person and give me an idea of what i can do with it. I have seen and heard $20 dollars to $1000. I looked at show and see have not seen any coming into the Boston or even Rhode Island area. I dont mind driving and hour or so to finally get this checked out by a professional to see what i have or not have.
    I am glad the pics are clean for some.
  12. krispy

    krispy krispy

    I stand by my assertion that the pics and no other evidence heretofore do nothing to validate the note authentic and so any such enthusiam as displayed very early on with no supporting evidence do nothing but misguide the hopes of the OP, do nothing to inform nor educate him from the outset, not to instruct him properly on the pitfalls and downside of these notes in the market or that it could all be a ruse even though this note were found in circulation. Hence the naivety that apparently remains on display, with little too room for doubt. As given room in my previous comments. I don't 100% dispute the chance of this being authentic, and yes they are indeed common, but none of us can accurately say this note is authentic in this thread without closer examination or that of the certifying company.

    I would not sell this to a dealer but instead look to submit the note through a dealer to those companies named, then see what you are dealing with and whether the dealer wants to buy it. Furthermore the OP will not know how to approach the sale of the note or even if the dealer his giving him a fair offer price or fair information regarding the notes validity, unless he actually manages to get the assistance of a company like Denly's. In that case I should think he could take their word.

    Words of warning were all I mention(ed).
  13. krispy

    krispy krispy

    You didn't cause a stir, this is the very real side of questioning such matters. Do your homework before you sell the note to anyone. You may even decided to get the note certified and keep it for yourself, despite the cost. Collectors pay more for products and services all the time, it's part of the hobby. Try to enjoy it and don't get overwhelmed by our banter. It's not about picking sides, its about educating oneself and enjoying the topic that we are all passionate about. We are all glad to help you as much as we can here!
  14. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator--selling--make an offer I can't refuse

    exactly what I was thinking. sorry, man!

  15. tbudwiser

    tbudwiser Active Member

    Last I checked we were just having a friendly conversation expressing our different opinions and while the conversations may seem combative, they are actually usually just informative. Without us expressing different opinions and seeing things differently, this wouldn't be much of a forum, would it? I've actually learned a lot from people like krispy who have different views on authenticating error notes etc. Most of us are smart educated people that see things differently, that's all. I for one am thankful that we're not all on here holding hands and dancing in a circle singing kumbaya and agreeing and saying the same thing. :dead-horse: You wouldn't learn a whole lot if that were how educational forums like CT work... Instead you are lucky enough to see different opinions and decide for youself what you think seems correct.:)

  16. gags14

    gags14 New Member

    I have contacted Denlys of Boston, has anyone else dealt with them before? Will they even talk with me not being a collector/
    I havent heard from them, just wondering if anyone has talked with them before.
  17. krispy

    krispy krispy

    @ Gags: Myself, not directly, but have inquired about some notes from them in the past. It may take a while for a response, but don't let that stop you from learning about notes.

    I have one other source you can try to contact specifically about error notes, he sells on eBay as well as through this site:

    US Rare Currency.com - Errors

    He has a great gallery of error notes to check out, though most are not usually for sale, I believe.

    Give it a shot with your note.
  18. ronterry

    ronterry New Member

    Screw the note, I'm still trying to wrap my head around Tbud's the paper money expert? LOL Come clean, are those your buddies?
    j/k dude...

    Transfers always do well on EBay! Don't start picking out the color of your Vette yet. I think you should'nt have a problem getting $15-$20 retail...
    Haven't seen a transfer on newer color big heads? Now that would be cool!
  19. tbudwiser

    tbudwiser Active Member

    I come clean! They are my multiple accounts!:D I have 16 accounts here on CT, and ronterry is one of my many usernames. So is clayirving, krispy, SteveInTampa, silentnviolent, NOS, alaninrock, all of them are MINE!:devil: Oh and I forgot to mention, President Obama knocked on my door today and took all of my computers. He also took my shoes!!:dead-horse:

    Oh hold on, the Center for Disease and Control is knocking on my door because I have been posting pictures of Obama running with shoes on the internet. They are probably going to arrest me. Today is a sad day.:(

  20. slippinin

    slippinin New Member

    I got mine in change too. Those photos were from before i got the new camera i use now. I can tell that it's real by just looking at it. You can actually feel the extra ink on the reverse. I have no idea how it was printed partially like that, but i could take new pics if anyone wanted to see a closer view of the partial one in the link above.
  21. tbudwiser

    tbudwiser Active Member

    Yes please.

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