I checked the Krause catalog and no proof version exists. I checked NGC's page for one of the coins, and it doesn't exist either. Yet, I came across this eBay page selling a proof version of all six regular circulation coins: http://www.ebay.com/itm/322112967879 The photos that the seller posted show a reverse proof strike. That could be possible, however, the fields look as if the flow lines are all moving upward. That, too, could be possible, as I've seen that on some of my proofs. But, it just seems odd that it's not mentioned at all in Krause's catalog. The only proof set that I'm aware for these regular low denomination coins is only from the year 1982. Upon even closer inspection on the OGP, it appears that it's the same as the business strike OGP of the same year. One example listing is here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331857843920 Can anyone please confirm or deny the proof version of these coins? Thanks in advance!
When it comes to World Coin mint sets, don't look at Krause. They really do not have the best information on mint sets. You'll want to have a Daegwangsa or O-sung K&C catalogue (Korean-published). At least with these, you can see all S. Korean mint sets ever made. There are many more than Krause cites. And the last time I looked, I thought Krause cited ones that don't even exist(!) That 2003 Bank of Korea "proof set" that you linked from eBay number only 3,000 sets made. They made 17,000 "regular" sets for 2003. The background is this: The Bank of Korea made special, "foreign" mint sets ( 해외증정용 민트세트 ) from the years 2001 to 2014. These were meant to be given as gifts to visiting foreign minting agency workers who toured Bank of Korea facilities in South Korea. These "foreign sets" are identical in appearance to the regular, yearly mints sets, with the exception that all of the titles and lettering are in English only. Very little or no Korean hangul alphabet appears on the "foreign" sets' cases or slipcovers. If you see one of these for sale/bid outside of Korea, they will often be sold at the regular set prices, as the sellers occasionally do not know that what they are selling is actually special. While tens of thousands of the regular sets were made each year, for the years 2001 to 2014, only 3,000 to 5,000 "Foreign Sets" were made depending on the year. These, of course will sell for twice or three times the price of a regular set, IF the seller knows what she's selling! The six coins in the "Foreign" sets for the years 2001 to 2004 were minted in reverse proof (or "matte proof" ...or was it "satin proof?"), and have been selling (from my rough estimates) in the collector market for at least $250 to $700 USD over the past few years. Notice the difference in the appearance of the coins below. Regular BOK Mint Set for 2001 (left).... "Foreign" BOK set for 2003 (right).... Here are the four mint sets that were made as "reverse proofs" (foreign mint sets): The mintages are on the left of the chart, (foreign mintage on top left, regular mintage bottom left), and the catalogue prices for these on the right. Like most catalogues, the Korean catalogues quote rather sanguine prices...
Thanks for that info! I really do wonder why there isn't a catalog that aggregates all that mint data, not just for Korean coins, but for coins from all over the world. I'm not sure how Krause catalogs coins, but they're about 3 years behind schedule in terms of assigning numbers, and they don't even have all of the data. It's as if they must confirm all of the data themselves and directly from the source - otherwise, it's as if they consider all other info as hearsay. Anyway, I got really into the turtle ship design, and I wanted the 1983-present type of the 5 Won coin, but I didn't want to pass up a proof version if it really did exist. It seems that they do. Now to find one at a lower price...
By the way @mlov43, do you have a reliable source for North Korean coin info? I checked Krause, online data, etc., and almost all of them have missing info such as mintages and even entire coins. Does the Daegwangsa or O-sung K&C catalogs you mention include North Korean coins, or is it only for South Korean coins?
The two Korean catalogues cite only "old Korea" (Koryo, Chosun) and the Republic of Korea (South Korea). There is a Russian/German coin collector here at CT who is really into DPRK silver proofs. Perhaps someone from the "eastern bloc" like him would have better info. I believe he/she goes by @lex1705 . You might try that person?
I guess Doug once said it best: Krause does what it can. I guess we have to hand it to them for even attempting to get a handle on every single nation from 1400 to present. Krause just can't stay on top of a lot of things. I wonder how hard they try at times, but I'm willing to concede to the scale of the task before them! If you want one of those proof 5 Won coins, the best bet would be to purchase a 2000 Bank of Korea set. The 5 Won and 1 Won coins from that year were ALL minted as that "reverse proof" strike. Those sets number 30,000, so there's many more out there. I just can't find any at the usual places right now...
Thanks - that's very useful information! I'll be on the lookout for that one, but if you ever come across it, please let me know! And, do you think the Mint had a proof-like strike for the 2005 year, too? I see what looks like frosted devices / cameo (especially on the 500 Won coin), with very little to no cartwheel luster, which is very different from the other years' mint sets (besides the one for 2000, which I haven't come across yet). Those other sets have a strong and noticeable cartwheel beaming out. This set does not.
No, the 2005 set does not have proof coins of any kind, neither the regular nor the "foreign" version. It may be a "foreign" set? Look at the case and/or slipcover. If it lacks Korean lettering on it, it is a "foreign" one. In any case, the Korean Mint, Komsco, used some pretty decent full, cleanly-struck coins in its mint sets up to around 2007. They clearly used very careful practices when minting the mint set coins from 1995 to around 2007, since there are practically no dings or bag marks on them. Must have used some very nice coining dies, too. In fact, I broke open some cheap World Cup 2001 and 2002 mint sets to get at the coins for my "frankenstein" South Korea Dansco air-tite albums. The coins inside those sets were probably the best-struck coins for regular strikes that I've seen from South Korea. After 2007, you notice that they cared a lot less, and just used regularly-struck coins in the regular mint sets. Those coins exhibit a few, to many, bag marks. The "foreign mint sets" for these years were still well-struck, though. Here are my regular and "foreign" mint sets for 2009.
I was creating an NGC Registry Set to organize some coins and I noticed that NGC claims the following: + 2000-2001 South Korea 5 Won SP (for 2000, I can see it as it looks noticeably different than the reverse proof ones seen in the following years, but I'm unsure about 2001) + 2002-2007 South Korea 5 Won PF (2005-2007 also includes proof variants??) + 2005 South Korea 5 Won PL (only year with a proof-like strike) Does this info seem accurate to you? Or maybe NGC has changed their opinion.
Hey, iPen. Whassup? Well, the 2000 can be claimed as Satin Proof, sure. The 2001? Hmm. I don't think so, but they are very beautifully struck in any case. I have a 2001 Mint Set, and the finishes on the coins in that set look pretty close to the coins from the 2000 set. I really wonder what the "intention" of the BoK and Komsco was when they made ALL of the coins for the 2000 to 2004 sets (both Mint and Foreign proof)? Maybe NGC saw a 2001 Foreign Proof set, or a Five-Won coin from the 2001 Foreign Proof set (those look more "reverse proof" to me), and now they are citing it as Satin Proof? Remember, the cases of any Foreign Proof set and Mint Set from 2001 to 2004 are almost identical. That may have been a confusion for them. The rest of the examples you cite sound fine by me, but "proof variants" may just be extra nice strikes from Mint or Foreign Gift sets. Who knows? My BoK mint set video:
Thanks for that info. I was able to see from NGC's site that there's also a 1991 5 Won proof, so maybe coins are special from that year, too (??). Also, 2005, 2006, and 2007 have proof 5 won coins, too, which I thought would simply be labeled as Proof-Like as they have with the 2005 5 Won, and seemingly every other nicely struck non-proof coins (e.g. Canadian proof-like sets). It's just really odd to me. I made sure to see if "Korea" meant South Korea, and it does, as North Korean coins are called "North Korea" when searching the NGC Registry:
Yeah, that's just way too weird, that 1991 proof. Nothin' I've ever heard of! Again, probably just a really beautifully-struck piece that looks like a 2000 Mint Set coin? If they are attributing these coins as SP, PF or PL purely based on their surfaces, then why not? Nothing really wrong with that. I think that's what's going on. If they base their attributions on the Mint's or the BoK's intended result, then the attributions are most likely not right. At least according to the Korea-sourced information that I have at this time. And yes, you do have to check whether they mean DPRK or RoK. You'll notice this to be a problem if you try to send anything to South Korea at the USPS! Thanks for alerting me to this! I will make a post to this affect at my Korean Coins FB page... Cheers. -Mark
