2002 P 50C - Small Collar Die Break - Rotating Collar CUD

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by paddyman98, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    :jawdrop: Hello all and welcome to my 5000th post! :woot:
    5000.JPG
    In my new thread I want to show an error that is not found on neither the Obverse or the Reverse of a coin. It's found on the Collar. The name that it has been given is the Small Collar Die Break. It has also become known as the Rotating Collar CUD which I will explain.
    A few years ago I was intrigued by this error and wanted to find out more about it after I saw and purchased a NGC slabbed sample.
    The year was 2002 and the Philadelphia Mint were cranking out their Kennedy Halves. And as it sometimes happens.. trouble. The collar that holds the Blank Planchet in place cracked. Just as Obverse Hammer Die and Reverse Anvil Die Cracks, Die Cracks appear when the metal is forced into the tiny little space. This time it's on the collar. What is interesting and the reason is not known, is that the Collar Die Break is found in different positions around the Collar. The theory is that the Collar is not held in place and turns around as the Planchets are struck.
    There is a section on the Error-ref website dedicated to the Rotating Collar Cud which I will share with you all - http://www.error-ref.com/rotating-collar-cud/
    49068346.jpg
    IMG_20161207_175836_3280.jpg
    Here is an example of a big CUD on one of my 12 raw coins in my collection.


     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
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  3. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    I have in my collection 31 NGC slabbed Small Collar Die Breaks
    See if you can locate the Collar Cud on this piece :watching:
    3545833-032+A.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    SW of the "L" at about 8:15

    Chris
     
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  5. Matthew Peak

    Matthew Peak Member

    About 8:30, or just south west of the L in Liberty.
     
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  6. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    Correct

    Correct
     
  7. alurid

    alurid Well-Known Member

    Between the T & E in UNITED. And congratulations on 5000.
     
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  8. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    From the collars I've seen i can't see how they could rotate. Does this rotating collar cud change positions relative to both obv and reverse at the same timae and by the same amount? If it is just relative to the rev die, or compared to both dies but not equally, then the die(s) is probably rotating not the collar break.
     
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  9. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    Good question. It's the collar from what I have read
    Here is another article by Mike Diamond on the subject.
    I want to share this webpage with you -
    http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-co...alf-dollar-collectors-clearinghouse.all.html#

    @Conder101 let me know what you think.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  10. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    The article still doesn't mention if the collar break position varies with both die faces or just one. I can see how if you have a collar with an insert that insert could break loose and rotate. And the fact that it would rotate in one direction only is not surprising. You have a piece of equipment going through a set of motions that causes a piece to rotate, as long as it keeps going through those same motions the piece will tend to keep rotating in that same direction.
     
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  11. mikediamond

    mikediamond Coin Collector

    Yes, the position of the collar break changes with respect to both faces.
     
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  12. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

  13. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    I now have 40 Attributed in my collection.
    20200405_080926.jpg
     
  14. mikediamond

    mikediamond Coin Collector

    This week's Coin World features an update on this phenomenon. A fourth die pair is now associated with this rotating collar chip and the pattern of rotation is a little less regular than originally reported. While the movement is usually a steady clockwise rotation, it is occasionally punctuated by jumps, freezes, and resets.
     
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  15. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    Thank you Mike for that information. I will definitely check it out. Thanks for looking at my thread!
     
  16. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect since I was a baby

    5000? Ducky!
     
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  17. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    This thread is from 2016.. I just brought it back to life! The avatar is temporary ;)
     
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  18. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    All of the same date? 2002P? Now that's an obsession!

    I have found this thread immensely interesting. I had never considered the idea of a collar break, but reading through the error-ref section on them has been quite educational. Thanks!
     
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  19. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    And 14 in the raw!
    20200405_104450.jpg 20200405_104516.jpg 20200405_104435.jpg
     
  20. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Very nice and extremely interesting Paddy! Thank you for sharing.
     
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  21. halfcent1793

    halfcent1793 Well-Known Member

    Interesting. A pretty high percentage of 1825 half cents show a similar collar break that is usually referred to as an "edge lump." The edges were photographed using an concave mirror. 1825 edge lumps.jpg
     
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