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Message:: [QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 38433, member: 112"]Which of course is why I have purchased the books I have instead of Ciani. But I'm sure you know Ian, that because of this thread alone I will have to buy it anyway  <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> I've already posted a picture of the coin, it was this design - design 3 - <img src="http://www.gdjmsp.cointalk.org/other_pics/temp/1%2012th%20ecu%20c%20obv.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> <img src="http://www.gdjmsp.cointalk.org/other_pics/temp/1%2012th%20ecu%20c%20rev.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> This design was used for the 1/12 ecu ( I'm still fairly certain that is the denomination of the coin in question ) from 1701 through 1704. But it was only struck at the Paris mint in '01, '02 & '03. The only 4 denier I am familiar with is the quatre deniers de Strasbourg and I do not show it as billon. I certainly see the similarity,  but certain details do not match the information I have. The location of the L in LVD for example. With the coin in question the L is well under the shoulder - on the 4 denier it is at the peak of the shoulder nearly touching the hair. And the privy mark, on the coin in question is found at 11 o'clock - on the 4 denier it is at 12 o'clock. So perhaps this is not the coin of which you speak.[/QUOTE]