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<p>[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 4106685, member: 112"]I was merely trying to understand your thinking. I guess that's because to me toning patterns of a similar nature (concentric circles and gradual fade) are not all that uncommon. Sure the colors change somewhat, and some are bound to be more vibrant than others especially on Proofs, but the basic patterns are pretty similar, on Proofs and business strikes. Look at these for example - </p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2Fbc4AAOSwcUBYTJlR%2Fs-l1600.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.collectors.com%2Fdiscussion%2F973076%2Fwhy-do-proof-coins-and-business-coins-tone-so-differently&docid=qpXZtH7V18vbPM&tbnid=BBukyHAXwUkQjM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwhAKAAwAA..i&w=1600&h=821&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=0ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwhAKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2Fbc4AAOSwcUBYTJlR%2Fs-l1600.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.collectors.com%2Fdiscussion%2F973076%2Fwhy-do-proof-coins-and-business-coins-tone-so-differently&docid=qpXZtH7V18vbPM&tbnid=BBukyHAXwUkQjM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwhAKAAwAA..i&w=1600&h=821&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=0ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwhAKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bc4AAOSwcUBYTJlR/s-l1600.jpg&imgrefurl=https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/973076/why-do-proof-coins-and-business-coins-tone-so-differently&docid=qpXZtH7V18vbPM&tbnid=BBukyHAXwUkQjM:&vet=10ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwhAKAAwAA..i&w=1600&h=821&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images "toned proof coins"&ved=0ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwhAKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8</a></p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgs.com%2Fezine%2Fimagesforweb%2FAttractive-250.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgs.com%2Fnews%2Ftoning-does-it-help&docid=JSHFIrHFt3PntM&tbnid=WC4XqV-s3BDNOM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwiFASgaMBo..i&w=250&h=250&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=0ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwiFASgaMBo&iact=mrc&uact=8" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgs.com%2Fezine%2Fimagesforweb%2FAttractive-250.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgs.com%2Fnews%2Ftoning-does-it-help&docid=JSHFIrHFt3PntM&tbnid=WC4XqV-s3BDNOM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwiFASgaMBo..i&w=250&h=250&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=0ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwiFASgaMBo&iact=mrc&uact=8" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pcgs.com/ezine/imagesforweb/Attractive-250.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.pcgs.com/news/toning-does-it-help&docid=JSHFIrHFt3PntM&tbnid=WC4XqV-s3BDNOM:&vet=10ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwiFASgaMBo..i&w=250&h=250&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images "toned proof coins"&ved=0ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwiFASgaMBo&iact=mrc&uact=8</a></p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fc0836982.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com%2F837_42e56c5b-8382-49bb-9c98-6ca482e43c8f.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sellusmintcoins.com%2F837_article_coin_collector_s_q_a_i_recently_found_a_naturally_dark_not_tarnished_jefferson_nickel_what_caused_the_unusual_color_is_it_valuable.html&docid=gOiqhRAda1lQKM&tbnid=4Aa1nOqg7FpSYM%3A&vet=12ahUKEwj_7uL9rcznAhVP1VkKHeheBDo4ZBAzKBgwGHoECAEQMQ..i&w=800&h=400&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=2ahUKEwj_7uL9rcznAhVP1VkKHeheBDo4ZBAzKBgwGHoECAEQMQ&iact=mrc&uact=8" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fc0836982.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com%2F837_42e56c5b-8382-49bb-9c98-6ca482e43c8f.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sellusmintcoins.com%2F837_article_coin_collector_s_q_a_i_recently_found_a_naturally_dark_not_tarnished_jefferson_nickel_what_caused_the_unusual_color_is_it_valuable.html&docid=gOiqhRAda1lQKM&tbnid=4Aa1nOqg7FpSYM%3A&vet=12ahUKEwj_7uL9rcznAhVP1VkKHeheBDo4ZBAzKBgwGHoECAEQMQ..i&w=800&h=400&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=2ahUKEwj_7uL9rcznAhVP1VkKHeheBDo4ZBAzKBgwGHoECAEQMQ&iact=mrc&uact=8" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://c0836982.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/837_42e56c5b-8382-49bb-9c98-6ca482e43c8f.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sellusmintcoins.com/837_article_coin_collector_s_q_a_i_recently_found_a_naturally_dark_not_tarnished_jefferson_nickel_what_caused_the_unusual_color_is_it_valuable.html&docid=gOiqhRAda1lQKM&tbnid=4Aa1nOqg7FpSYM:&vet=12ahUKEwj_7uL9rcznAhVP1VkKHeheBDo4ZBAzKBgwGHoECAEQMQ..i&w=800&h=400&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images "toned proof coins"&ved=2ahUKEwj_7uL9rcznAhVP1VkKHeheBDo4ZBAzKBgwGHoECAEQMQ&iact=mrc&uact=8</a></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.pcgs.com%2FTrueView%2F83274028_tiny.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgs.com%2Fsetregistry%2Fcollectors-showcase%2Ftoned-coins%2Fmodcrewmans-toned-coin-showcase%2F2769&docid=2LYC6tEqp7itzM&tbnid=zBVZDOaEPyZNuM%3A&vet=12ahUKEwiSkoKPrsznAhWr1FkKHU50Djw4yAEQMygPMA96BAgBEB8..i&w=186&h=94&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=2ahUKEwiSkoKPrsznAhWr1FkKHU50Djw4yAEQMygPMA96BAgBEB8&iact=mrc&uact=8" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.pcgs.com%2FTrueView%2F83274028_tiny.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgs.com%2Fsetregistry%2Fcollectors-showcase%2Ftoned-coins%2Fmodcrewmans-toned-coin-showcase%2F2769&docid=2LYC6tEqp7itzM&tbnid=zBVZDOaEPyZNuM%3A&vet=12ahUKEwiSkoKPrsznAhWr1FkKHU50Djw4yAEQMygPMA96BAgBEB8..i&w=186&h=94&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=2ahUKEwiSkoKPrsznAhWr1FkKHU50Djw4yAEQMygPMA96BAgBEB8&iact=mrc&uact=8" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=https://images.pcgs.com/TrueView/83274028_tiny.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/toned-coins/modcrewmans-toned-coin-showcase/2769&docid=2LYC6tEqp7itzM&tbnid=zBVZDOaEPyZNuM:&vet=12ahUKEwiSkoKPrsznAhWr1FkKHU50Djw4yAEQMygPMA96BAgBEB8..i&w=186&h=94&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images "toned proof coins"&ved=2ahUKEwiSkoKPrsznAhWr1FkKHU50Djw4yAEQMygPMA96BAgBEB8&iact=mrc&uact=8</a></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Or this coin that I used to own. It was 1 of 7 that I bought all the same time. And you've probably seen it before because I bought them for JD. All 7 had been wrapped in tissue paper by the original owner.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1066736[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I guess my point is, just because you see vibrant toning like that it doesn't mean it's AT. Sure, it can be, because if you get the gas mixture right the toning happens just like it does when it's completely natural - only much faster. And neither one can ever be told apart by anybody. </p><p><br /></p><p>Natural toning is completely dependent upon the coin itself, environmental conditions, and storage methods. And all ya have to do to do it artificially is reproduce those conditions, but in greater concentration. That's why they cannot be told apart.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 4106685, member: 112"]I was merely trying to understand your thinking. I guess that's because to me toning patterns of a similar nature (concentric circles and gradual fade) are not all that uncommon. Sure the colors change somewhat, and some are bound to be more vibrant than others especially on Proofs, but the basic patterns are pretty similar, on Proofs and business strikes. Look at these for example - [URL]https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2Fbc4AAOSwcUBYTJlR%2Fs-l1600.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.collectors.com%2Fdiscussion%2F973076%2Fwhy-do-proof-coins-and-business-coins-tone-so-differently&docid=qpXZtH7V18vbPM&tbnid=BBukyHAXwUkQjM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwhAKAAwAA..i&w=1600&h=821&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=0ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwhAKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8[/URL] [URL]https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgs.com%2Fezine%2Fimagesforweb%2FAttractive-250.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgs.com%2Fnews%2Ftoning-does-it-help&docid=JSHFIrHFt3PntM&tbnid=WC4XqV-s3BDNOM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwiFASgaMBo..i&w=250&h=250&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=0ahUKEwi8rqfqrcznAhUzZDUKHTGGCNkQMwiFASgaMBo&iact=mrc&uact=8[/URL] [URL]https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fc0836982.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com%2F837_42e56c5b-8382-49bb-9c98-6ca482e43c8f.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sellusmintcoins.com%2F837_article_coin_collector_s_q_a_i_recently_found_a_naturally_dark_not_tarnished_jefferson_nickel_what_caused_the_unusual_color_is_it_valuable.html&docid=gOiqhRAda1lQKM&tbnid=4Aa1nOqg7FpSYM%3A&vet=12ahUKEwj_7uL9rcznAhVP1VkKHeheBDo4ZBAzKBgwGHoECAEQMQ..i&w=800&h=400&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=2ahUKEwj_7uL9rcznAhVP1VkKHeheBDo4ZBAzKBgwGHoECAEQMQ&iact=mrc&uact=8[/URL] [URL]https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.pcgs.com%2FTrueView%2F83274028_tiny.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgs.com%2Fsetregistry%2Fcollectors-showcase%2Ftoned-coins%2Fmodcrewmans-toned-coin-showcase%2F2769&docid=2LYC6tEqp7itzM&tbnid=zBVZDOaEPyZNuM%3A&vet=12ahUKEwiSkoKPrsznAhWr1FkKHU50Djw4yAEQMygPMA96BAgBEB8..i&w=186&h=94&safe=images&bih=688&biw=1455&q=images%20%22toned%20proof%20coins%22&ved=2ahUKEwiSkoKPrsznAhWr1FkKHU50Djw4yAEQMygPMA96BAgBEB8&iact=mrc&uact=8[/URL] Or this coin that I used to own. It was 1 of 7 that I bought all the same time. And you've probably seen it before because I bought them for JD. All 7 had been wrapped in tissue paper by the original owner. [ATTACH=full]1066736[/ATTACH] I guess my point is, just because you see vibrant toning like that it doesn't mean it's AT. Sure, it can be, because if you get the gas mixture right the toning happens just like it does when it's completely natural - only much faster. And neither one can ever be told apart by anybody. Natural toning is completely dependent upon the coin itself, environmental conditions, and storage methods. And all ya have to do to do it artificially is reproduce those conditions, but in greater concentration. That's why they cannot be told apart.[/QUOTE]
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