I am quite familiar with most "die flow" types. And I suspect this is one. But, this nice well struck quarter demonstrates no die flow lines, or spreads in any of the devices or dates, et al. (Except for the indicated "doubling"). The "doubling" ONLY occurs from the forehead to the chin. Hope the image portrays this clearly. The reverse is normal, nothing unusual. Could abrasion of some sort have generated this? If abrasion, again lines or symptoms of over-polishing are not seen. Any assist here would be appreciated.
Flow lines become apparent as a die begins to deteriorate. The doubling on the profile appears to be machine doubling....flat and shelf-like. Machine doubling has nothing to do with flow lines. Chris
Chris, thank you. You've been on-line for about 40 minutes now, what took you so long to reply? I can see that the "MD" seems to be flat. I was hoping it was an odd die flow, or abrasion doubling. Me wrong. Or???? see below, next post.
quotes from Wexler's website, and The Asylum, as are the images, below. A similar variety on a 1957-D Lincoln cent which also had a genuine doubled die "extra eyelid" was found both with and without the throat doubling, something that would not be possible if the throat doubling were part of the genuine doubled die doubling. This one and a number of others with similar doubling were eventually deleted from the doubled die files. Perhaps some additional info, on this odd "doubling". If just MD, it seems to be quite restricted. Here is another possibility! From Wexler's website Another form of doubling that has been frequently confused with doubled die doubling is a form of doubling known as abrasion doubling. In fact, a number of specimens of abrasion doubling were actually once listed as doubled dies, so at one time it even fooled many of the "experts". This form of doubling gets its name from the fact that it is caused by rubbing an abrasive on the face of the die. This is done deliberately and as a matter of routine in an attempt to remove die clash marks. For those unfamiliar with die clashes and what causes them, a quick review of how coins are struck is in order. Planchets are struck by a pair of steel rods called dies. One die contains the obverse design and the other die contains the reverse design. In the coining presses a planchet is fed between the two dies and comes to rest on one of them (usually the reverse die) which is known as the anvil die. A collar surrounds the planchet to prevent the planchet metal from squeezing outward at the moment of impact in the striking of the coins. The hammer die (usually the obverse die) strikes the planchet with great force squeezing the planchet metal into the die cavities on both the obverse and reverse dies thus forming the design on the coin. Every now and then there is a malfunction in the mechanism that feeds the planchets into the coining chamber and a planchet will fail to be fed between the dies. The dies will come together without a planchet between them and strike each other. The force of the strike leaves part of the obverse design on the reverse die and part of the reverse design on the obverse die. When planchets subsequently are fed between the dies to be struck, the coins will bear these die clash images. On the Lincoln Memorial cents the clash marks appear as Memorial columns on the obverse which were usually seen behind the neck in the area of the TY of LIBERTY, below Lincoln's beard, and on some of the stronger clashes they are seen to the right of Lincoln's face and sometimes even on Lincoln's neck. On the reverse die the clash marks normally appear as an inverted TY of LIBERTY in the upper part of the first two Memorial bays and an incuse outline of Lincoln's beard in the bays to the right of the statue of Lincoln. The technique for removing these die clash marks is to rub the surface of the die with an abrasive. If the die is abraded too vigorously in the area of the incuse design elements, the abrasive will eat into the surface of the die in those areas very much like the erosion that takes place in normal die deterioration. Again, these depressed areas from the abrasion process will appear as raised areas on the struck coins resulting in "doubling" of the affected letters or other design elements. look familiar? Odds are that the quarter in the OP is MD, as abrasion doubling is rather rare. I wonder if the flat shelf of MD, is characteristic of abrasion doubling as well?
@GSDykes I would call your quarter machine doubling as opposed to abrasion doubling. The tapering is not there which would suggest some sort of polishing effort to remove it. I have seen Wexler's referencing of the abrasion doubling and it is apparent on the Lincoln cents from 1962-64 most times at the throat but some also including running up to the forehead. Die abrasion "doubling" also appears on the 2009 P Lincoln cent Formative Years reverse as a web between the thumb and first finger. This initially was also thought to be a doubled die but was corrected in terminology. There was a lot of die polishing on these to try and eliminate the original doubled die in the same area .
There are much better examples out on the interwebs of machine doubling around the face. Your example are of abrasion doubling, which is different though slightly similar. here also from WEXLERs website is MD around the face. Much more similar to your original example https://www.doubleddie.com/144822.html this shows a MD example around the face http://www.error-ref.com/machine-doubling/
First, I never sign out, but I sometimes turn off my monitor and watch TV. However, I just got back from having breakfast at one of the local eateries. Read on to my next post about abrasion doubling. Chris
"Another form of doubling that has been frequently confused with doubled die doubling is a form of doubling known as abrasion doubling. In fact, a number of specimens of abrasion doubling were actually once listed as doubled dies, so at one time it even fooled many of the "experts". This form of doubling gets its name from the fact that it is caused by rubbing an abrasive on the face of the die. This is done deliberately and as a matter of routine in an attempt to remove die clash marks." Now, if you look at the first image in your Post #4, you can see that the abrasion marks in the field are consistent with die polishing. The raised marks from polishing the die are not necessarily parallel as you would find associated with die deterioration. However, the 1988-P quarter in your Post #1 displays neither die polishing nor die deterioration. It is simply machine doubling. Chris
These are the threads that take the wind out of me. As soon as I think Im getting a grasp I learn yet another form of "something" is out there. I think this is my attraction to this hobby....its never ending. Trying to remember to even look for this stuff is mind boggling. Great banter back and forth with facts.
