I've ran across several mint state 1983-P quarters that appear to have worn breasts, legs, wing tips and a generally weak portrait on the obverse on both raw and graded examples. I understand due to the "no mint set year" many of these raw coins are, in fact, sliders and not MS. The obverse for 1982 and 1983 was weakened somewhat by the mint, but what's going on with the reverses on these? Weak strikes? Some of this perceived wear is comparable to a VF 30 heavily circulated coin. Can anyone comment on this? Do the TPG's examine the reeded edges more closely when grading these 2 years to determine if they are MS? Comments appreciated. Here's a link to consider: http://cgi.ebay.com/1983-P-PCGS-MS6...mQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item563939dc3c
IMO, as long as there is no luster break on the high points, then the coin is MS and the 82 and 83 Washington's did have a tendency to be on the weak side.
Curious if anyone else has seen examples with a "smeared" N in UNUM? It almost blends into the U of PLURIBUS.
I'm not sure I've noticed the reverses are necessarily worse than the obverses but they are certainly bad. Mint quality was getting pretty good by 1982 and you could find a few gems made for circulation. But then 1981 most of the quarters had unattractive surfaces and they used the dies way too long on the '82 and '83 issues so these were major setbacks in the generally improving mint quality. They did change the contour of the obverse die a little in '83 which might account for what you're saying. In '82 the obverse fields were a little flatter and there was a more even curve to it. In '83 most of this curve was concentrated in a narrower region a little closer to the rim. This would affect reverse metal flow but I'll have to keep my eyes open for it to confirm or deny a significant difference. The '66 quarters were some of the worst. A lot of these were struck by extremely worn dies that barely even hit the planchet. They had as much detail as a VG in some cases. A lot of the extremely worn looking early quarters were actually just horrid strikes.
Yes, he should! Exactly! The quarter in the ebay listing I linked features a very dull looking (wear-like) breast without defined breast feathers. Defined breast feathers appear to be relatively scarce for this date. These dates mentioned are definitely far worse than even the typical sub-par Philedelphia clad quality up until that time, IMO. All of this, in addition to a lack of mint sets, makes them a challenge. I, and I'm sure many others, would appreciate this! Could you also look for that "smeared" N. There's no possibility of it being post-mint.
I wanted to also point out the filled A in DOLLAR of the coin in the link. I've seen this before.... Filled A, with the smeared N, and a DIE CRACK ABOVE MOTTO... this could be an interesting variety? This is a difficult coin to grade if your not familiar with the series.
An uncirculated coin is at least MS-60, no matter how bad the strike. Wear and weak strikes are two different issues. Now, if you want a coin graded MS-66, a weak strike has no chance of achieving that grade. Some dealers on ebay may not think so, but TPGs definately take strike quality into consideration when slabbing a coin.
Quartertapper, I agree with you completely, but in this instance, wear and weak strikes (I think) are oftentimes confused. If a collector armed with basic series grading skills were to look at many 82/83 Ps the weak breast, wing tips, and legs might easily mislead them.
You are completely correct. It does take a trained eye to tell the difference sometimes. Even experienced coin collectors have to take a few extra minutes on some coins. Peace dollars for example, often have weak strikes. So it never hurts to get a second opinion before you scream at your dealer.
I feel that 1983-P is VERY TOUGH to find nice, and in all seriousness, could be as rare as 1936-D in upper grades (MS-65 and up). You will simply never, ever find a sharply struck 1983-P, and that means they will always have those trivial little chicken-scratch marks all over the portrait. I have yet to ever see one that didn't have them to at least some extent. The little marks are not post-mint handling marks, but were already there when the coin was struck. And since these coins were never fully struck, the danged marks stayed there. My 1983-P Sent to NGC by me!!
I advertised through the late-'80's and early '90's to pay $40 for any '82 or '83 dated quarters in well struck gem. I got very little response and a lot of the ones people did ship were only AU at best. It looked like they sent the first one they saw in pocket change. There were even a few VF's. A few people made honest attemps and there were even a very few very gemmy coins but if anyone had these they sure weren't sending them to me. At the time some of these rolls were only $20 (the '83-P was $30). The '82-P is probably even worse but there are lots and lots of nice sliders out there since Numismatic News started running stories of how tough these are in May of 1985. The '82 is easier to find clean and without the chicken scratching but full strikes are a near impossibility and you'll see 10 AU's for each unc. I put a lot of effort into finding nice coins back in '82-'83 and usually came up empty handed. I'd look at bags and rolls but usually didn't save anything because they were bad. Of course now I wish I had put even more effort into it and saved a lot of them.
I found this topic interesting. I will check my 1982 and 1983 P quarters that I took from circulation, and see what I came up with.
