1983 Lincoln Error Penny

An update on the 1983 penny:

We decided to first test some penny's in Acetone, and if it didn't have any adverse effects on them, we'd give the 1983 the test.I put 4 penny's in a jar with acetone in it; 2 copper, and 2 copperclad, and left them in for 5 hours. The acetone didn't change them so I put the 1983 penny in and timed it for 15 minutes. It had no effect, and nothing came off the penny, and it is exactly the same as before.

I'm not sure this was the recommended procedure as what was called for was a dip, and what I did was more of like a bath.

 

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I think it's time for the moderator to end the discussion. I can't believe you'd dip that penny in acetone when the president of CONECA was willing to look at it for you, especially since you caught his interest and he mentioned it could be worth several hundred dollars if a legitimate error. I feel like you're just trying to cause a stir over nothing and I for one am unsubscribing to this post. Your 1983 squeeze job doesn't interesting me any longer. Dishsoap & Water is the only safe thing you can ever dip your coins in (And I really don't even condone that most of the time). Anything else is with huge RISK!

Esky

 

Your entitled to your opinion Eskychess. I suggest you read Mike Diamonds post of 03-17-2007, 08:06 AM in which he says: Let us know what happens with the acetone dip. Are you more knowledgeable than he on the subject of error coins? All I did was post the results like he asked.
I'm not trying to cause a stir, and I'm sorry I'm offending you.

 

I'm not going to speak for Mike. Yes, acetone at times is acceptable - However, a guy I knew who collected coins for nearly 60 years told me NEVER - EVER - EVER clean a coin with anything but soap and water. You even said acetone was out and then you went and did it. I'm sure - no - I'm willing to bet money that Mike would MUCH prefer to look at it before an acetone bath than after. Anyways - an argument is not what I'm after either. I am very anti cleaning and if you had a good specimen you should have sent it to Mike first before an acetone bath is all I'm saying. If you wreck that specimen it's gone for good - but if you would have waited and got it properly evaluated - it goes into a fine collection somewhere and the coin is most likely preserved for collectors to enjoy. I still think it's a squeeze job though - so I guess your acetone bath wasn't the end of the world.

Esky

 

Then why on earth do you recommend using soap and water, with the further implication that the coin must be rubbed with some kind of cloth to try and prevent leaving a film?

Acetone has no effect on metal and does not leave any kind of film on it, whereas the the oils in soap - frequently including perfumes and other additives - can leave a lasting film with the potential of permanent discoloration. Also, using a cloth to wipe off the soap leaves at least hairlines, and possibly scratches, depending on how vigorously the coin is wiped.

 

Satoot - I don't even like soap and water to be 100% honest with you! BUT if I was going to do it, soap and water would only be it under precise circumstances like the 1998 Wide AM I found tonight. It's XF - tops and dirty as heck. Couple dollar coin tops - I MAY soap it down but probably won't. If it was a 1999 Wide AM - absolutely NOT! I wouldn't even touch it - dirt and all.

Pure acetone theoretically shouldn't do anything to the metal correct. You trust your several hundred dollar coin to that worker edited to conform to forum rules that spits tobacco in the big vat while the finger nail polish removers are being produced??? Go right ahead Too much room for error for me. Even your college professor's chem lab can be contaminated - Several hundred dollar coin giving it a bath! No way - NOT MY COINS anyway!

Esky

 

I'll try and take a picture of this 2005 Bison S nickel I have - I don't have time tonight or tomorrow - but Sunday I might - I got the smallest speck of NOTHING on it in the transfer of holders and you should SEE the gob of rust that it turned into. It's amazing how something the size of 1/25 that of a grain of sand can ruin a coin!!!! I honestly feel like putting the thing in circulation!

Esky

 

I guess you missed my specification in many, many postings of "pure acetone from a hardware, paint or home center store, not nail polish remover with unknown additives".

 

No Satoot - I didn't miss a thing You go ahead and dip your valuable coins in hardware acetone (Same non-caring folks make that too - probably in the same place different bottles) I won't be upset what you do - but you know I'm right and I know you would not take your best coins and dip them. I just do.

I'll show you that bison this Sunday - When me and the coin guy transferred that coin - we never even touched it! I have no clue how that particle got on there - but boy did it ever wreck my poor coin. It's so sad to see such a beautiful coin get beat like that. You can lose them so easy - there is NO WAY I would ever dip a coin I cared about in acetone. I most certainly would NOT dip someone else's coin in acetone - especially if it had the potential to be worth several hundred dollars.

An interesting example of misplaced chemicals is the current dog and cat food scare (recall) - RAT POISON turns up in a place it absolutely should 100% not! You can't trust the chemicals Satoot - hardware, cosmetic, etc. Not unless you do this stuff professionally and even the professionals know you can lose coins by dipping them in acetone - there is a risk and me personally I say don't take it! (Sure, at times it's okay to take the risk) But, if it's valuable it's better to keep the dirt hehe

Esky

 

Pictures

I guess I had time afterall - although I'm tired - I just went through 5,000 - pennies! Here are pictures of the 1998 Wide AM I found tonight - this coin I would consider using soap and water on. I probably won't though - but I might just since we're talking about it. I highly doubt I'd use acetone on it - but again, it's not worth much (I'm sure I won't though). It's not in great shape - but it is a fairly rare find - if one wanted to experiment I suppose they could. I won't personally.

The buffalo - 2005 S - here is what a speck of NOTHING can do. Where it came from is ANYBODY's guess. But if this can happen to a coin - are you sure you want to dip your real good ones in acetone??? Even if it's from the hardware store?? There is too much risk in dipping. Better to keep the dirt. Maybe I should dip this one though? Make that horrible spot go away! LOL :kewl:

Esky

 

My absolute last word on the subject in this thread:

If that is PVC residue on your cent, soap and water will no absolutely nothing to help it along.

Acetone will remove PVC.

Pardon me if I prefer to follow the advice of a real expert, Mike Diamond, rather than your friend with his 60 years of collecting.

 

Wow. Sorry I brought up the acetone. I'm sure Mike would still want to examine your coin. If it is something that needs figuring out, he is the man.

Michael

 

and I hope its the last word on the subject,
Bruce

 

All I'm trying to say is dipping the coin was risky. If the coin is worth several hundred dollars - maybe a dip should have been postponed until further examination - especially the potential of a rare brockage error. This kid - whoever he is will never send the coin to Mike - he's not serious about the error to dip it before sending it off to the expert. You can dip all you want later or if the expert needs to in order to get more information. But to dip before? What am I NOT understanding?? A several hundred dollar coin potential and to dip it at home!!! ??? I apologize - I don't understand - if it was my coin - Mike would have had it last week for study.

I guess I also don't understand Satootoko's statement - Mike says he would dip the coin in acetone - but there is possibly a risk because it is a cent. And Mike is admitting he doesn't know the results for sure - he's the expert! And this equates RISK! I'm not trying to pull Mike into an argument or anything like that. What I'm trying say is the dip should have been postponed - especially since the coin is somebody elses. Now we have Satootoko saying he'd take Mike's word over my friend of 60 years (experience), when it really is the same advice - IT IS RISKY TO DIP COINS! Especially cents. Some people will do it, while others won't - but the bottom line is if you dip a coin - you run a risk of losing it. For Satootoko to insuate that Mike is a real expert and my guy is not - is pure out trying to cause an argument. There is no doubt Mike is a real expert - but we smaller guys can't have an opinion and it can't be correct? The way I look at it is, the 60 year veteran is more conservative - he's not any less correct than Mike because he (and I) would refuse to dip a coin in acetone. Refusing to dip a coin can only lead to NO destruction - but dipping a coin CAN lead to destruction. How much of a coin expert must one be to understand that logic?

Again you gentlemen are free to dip your valuable coins all you want. But, when you lose one - please - please - please don't tell me about it. Becasue to me the saddest way a coin can meet its demise is when its owner destroys it.

Esky

P.S. - I do want to apologize for shortening Satootoko's name in the previous posts. No disrespect was meant by it.

 

Acetone is an organic solvent which has no effect on coin metal. I have used it many times to dissolve glue and other sticky residues without harming the coin. Since the acetone dip had no effect on the coin in question, that tends to support the idea that we're dealing with a genuine error. However, without better photos or, better yet, the coin itself, I am not prepared to issue a declaration of authenticity or release a precise diagnosis.

 

If the acetone is not contaminated - you are 100% correct. Did this guy know how to dip a coin right? Did you correspond with him on how to do it properly? He's talking about soaking regular coins for five hours and then dipping his precious coin for 15 minutes. I mean by that statement alone it tells me there is a learning curve here! An experiment on a several hundred dollar potential coin?? And is he using the right acetone? As Satootoko said - finger nail polish removers have contaminates in them. I'm not disputing acetone itself - I'm disputing contaminates and process of dipping. Most people flub it up (myself included - that's why I don't DO IT! It's not rocket science but it does have to be done correctly). Mike if the coin was mine - I would have sent it to you before anything. Then and only then if you deemed a dip after that point - a professional dip - I would weigh the odds of losing it to the gain of proving it was genuine and then I'd make a decision to dip or not. (and my personal preference is to avoid dipping at nearly all costs - which is debateable and I grant in some cases I may be overconservative). That was the correct route to go and to steer this guy. Not have him dip it on his own without preparing him to do it properly. Just my opinion. The coin is probably still good. I'm just saying with such a valuable potential - maybe this guy should have been steered differently?

Esky

 

As a matter of fact, it is wholly unecessary to dip a coin in acetone or any solvent once you're familiar with what a glue job looks like. Examination under a 10X hand lens is sufficient. But the originator of this thread seems unwilling to submit the coin for study. So I simply provided some guidance on how to eliminate one of the suggested explanations. That seems to have been accomplished. Then again, there are some resins that are resistant to acetone and must be dissolved with other organic solvents.

 

I have a tendency to go overboard on my descriptions of things. I'll try to be to the point on this.

I have been using Acetone for over 30 years. I use it to remove solder flux from printed circuit boards. I can tell you that is doesn't harm the printed circuit which is made of copper in any way.

I changed my mind on doing the test with acetone, but only after getting permission from the owner. Some may not agree with this decision, but we figured that since Mike Diamond mentioned it that it might be part of his examination to test an error coin.

The photo is the can of Acetone I used. I purchased it on the day of the test. It was opened for the first time that day and wasn't used for anything else other than the test on the coin. I used clean glass jars to do the tests.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

 

Hi Rasputin.

If I have not said welcome to our forum yet them welcome we are all glad to have you here. when it comes to mint errors there are members here who have a lot of knowledge on this subject. As for me if Mike Diamond, Chuck Daughtrey, or even David Bowers offered to look at one of my coins it would have been in the mail within the hour. Sometimes here on this forum it is a good idea to wait a few days and get as many opinion as you can before you make a decision. Again welcome and I hope you spend a lot of time here good luck.

Bruce.

 

And let's make that a fitting conclusion to this thread.

rasputin41, if your quest for further information is successful, please start a new thread to inform us of what you discover in a less contentious setting.