1977 " Pennache" R-8+URS-1 Unique double extremely error 1 Museum

redwin117 · Oct 17, 2011

1995 Penny On Dime-Two full dates Obverse-skull break plus crack die variety.
Code:
[video=youtube;fEcO_Uu4uP4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEcO_Uu4uP4[/video]
themansionshop said: ↑

reply only by connoiseur only please
but if you don't know or think something that you know ,then please go ahead anyways and reply to this post:bigeyes:

Now please in regards to the last ones who replied about this coin, please do not improvise this coin with a " similar" find that you found in your change or that you seen at an auction recently or in the past. If anything close to this type of error would be a 3 legged Buffalo error ( being that this first error consisted of a lamination or mis printing error and ) that being the 4th leg and that #2, that being the second error, it being an overflip with a print of the reverse missing 4th leg. Now as we all know that such 3 legged buffalo with the 4th leg printed on the observe doesn't exist , here we have the 1977 Canadian Maple leaf Penny that has this Unique error but it does also have it perfect lamination or mis printed error of a small piece of the big maple leaf which in turn of that mis print reveals the little maple leaf in the back which is fact in all existant maple leaf ever printed this type of error is Unique and would qualify for Museum Beauty , Quality and in fact a R-8 and a URS-1 scale. And please let me also state that if it may have been an error where just part of the right end side of the big maple leaf was laminated or mis printed or maybe the fat left leaf from the small maple leaf was missing and of course with that missing than nothing would show in the background as the 3 legged buffalo example and that the "Pennache" had a small portion of the big maple leaf laminated or mis printed which was taken from the centre of the little maple leaf which now reveals the little maple leaf ( please see picture ) that with an overflip with that missing part then being printed on the outskirt of the Queen's hair and not exactly and perfectly curved in with her hair ( please see picture for that ) well if it was all that with let say just a small lamination from the the far side of the left small maple leaf which really wouldn't reveal anything and with that an overflip with let say a small leaf printed ..hm ...somewhere on the top far corner , well then I wouldn't call this a Museum and a Beautiful double extremely error! All comments are welcome and especially for those out there who would like to maybe post a " similar" error ...please post it to show us all but me as an error collectors who have been collecting them and have been to many auctions and kno just about all there is to know about error coins ..I doubt it very much that your finding is a n y t h i n g similar to the " Pennache" But if you do find something like a 3 legged buffalo with a 4th leg printed on the observe ( and that would be a Unique finding and not even close to the " Pennache" but Unique enough or an R-8 in it's kind and worth much more than any 3 legged buffalo and let me quote that " there are many 3 legged buffalo" ) well if you find one or similar then let us all see it and let's compare. By the way Gent, I have been holding on this finding of mine for almost a decade now and I have seen all the errors you could probalby imagine and for a " similar " find ( this message is for whoever doens't understand the terms by the meaning of " similar" :
a similar error would consist of any of these types of error.

Broadstrike : Coin struck without a collar, thus when the coin is struck the metal is allowed to expand and increase in diameter. May be centered or uncentered, but must not have any missing lettering or design detail
Off center: Coin struck without a collar and off center, different from the uncentered broadstrike because part of the lettering or design detail is missing.

Mechanical doubling :Often looks like a doubled die but is not. It is caused by loose dies that twist slightly after coming into contact with the planchet causing the die to slightly drag on the coin producing a flat, shelf-like doubled appearance. Also under this classification is excessive die wear and/or improper die annealing that will cause the elements of the design to appear doubled simply because the lettering and design elements are thick and mushy. Mechanical doubling usually commands very little premium. Be especially careful of this error on 1969-S cents which can sometimes be mistaken for the very rare and valuable 1969-S doubled die cent

die break:A chip out of the die into which metal from the planchet will flow when the die strikes coins. It appears as a raised blob of metal on the struck coins. When the die break is large it is sometimes called a "cud."

cud:When a significant part of the edge of the die deteriorates and falls off. The coins struck with this die exhibit a raised blank area on that part of the design. Sometimes called "major die break"

caps or die caps:When a coin is struck and sticks to the die for numerous strikes, the metal flows up around the die and the coin takes on the shape of a bottle cap. A very eye appealing and desirable error.

capped die strike:When a die cap error is occurring, the dies continue to strike more coins even though a coin is capped around one of the dies. If the coin is capped around the obv. die, the coins stuck with that die will appear blank or have varying degrees of mushyness on the obv. due to the obverse die being obstructed. If the cap stays on indefinitely, eventually it will wear through the planchet and the coins struck by that die will become less and less obstructed causing a "late-stage" capped die strike where the image is less distorted

Indent:When a blank planchet partially overlaps another planchet in the striking chamber and gets struck, the overlapping area on the struck coin will exhibit a blank indented area from the other planchet being struck into it.

brockage:Occurs the same as an indent, except that a struck coin is struck into a blank planchet leaving a mirror image impression, although often quite distorted due to metal flow.

struck through error:Occurs when a foreign object lies on top of the planchet and leaves an impression of itself when struck into the coin. A wide variety of objects have been reported including grease, string, cloth, hair, plastic, bandaid, staples, etc.

Weak strike or Die trial :Occurs when there is insufficient pressure from the dies to leave a full impression on the planchet. This can occur for a variety of reasons but usually occurs when the power to the presses is turned off and the dies continue to strike coins with less and less pressure until coming to a stop. On such coins all the detail, including the reeding on clad coins should exhibit extreme weakness. If the coin is simply struck through grease, some details may be strong and the edge reading will also be strong

curved flip planchet:Planchets are punched from large thin metal sheets. After a section of the sheet is punched, if the sheet fails to be fed far enough ahead, the punch will overlap an already punched area causing that planchet to have a circular "clip" of missing metal. A good way to tell if the coin is an error or simply damage that occurred outside the mint is to look for signs of metal flow into the blank area, which indicates a genuine clip. This will appear as weakness and thinness around the missing metal. There will also often be a corresponding area of weakness on the rim of the opposite side of the coin, known as the "Blakesley effect." A genuine clip will never show a raised edge of metal bordering the missing metal (which usually indicates shearing) and the details bordering the area of missing metal should not be crisp.

straight clip planchet:If the metal strip shifts during the punching process and the punches overlap the straight side edge of the strip, a straight area of metal will be missing from the planchet.

ragged clip planchet: If the punches overlap the ragged ends of the strip, a resulting ragged area of missing metal occurs

wrong planchet/off metal:When a planchet is struck by a pair of dies that do not correspond to the denomination intended for the planchet, a wrong planchet error occurs. For example a Jefferson nickel struck on a cent planchet will have the same weight and copper composition as a cent. It will likely be smaller than a nickel, but probably slightly larger than a cent because the nickel collar cannot restrain the smaller cent planchet from expanding

double denomination:Occurs when an already struck coin is struck by a pair of dies of a different denomination. These coins will show details of both denominations. For example a cent struck on a struck dime (often called an 11c piece) will have the planchet of a dime and details of both a dime and a cent. Usually the details of the denomination of the last dies to strike to coin are strongest and some double denomination coins barely show any detail from the denomination of the first strike

clashed dies:Occurs when there is a malfunction in the planchet feeding mechanism and no planchet is fed into the striking chamber allowing the dies to strike each other. The obv. die will leave an impression in the rev. die and vice versa. Coins struck with these dies will exhibit details of both the obv and rev. on each side of the coin. The amount of detail can vary from barely discernable to very noticeable

lamination: Dirt and impurities in the metal of the planchet can manifest themselves as cracks and peels on the struck coin

split planchet: If the impurity is severe enough, it can case the planchet to split into two halves obv. and rev. If the planchet splits before the strike, the resulting coin will be thin and have detail on both sides but often intermingled with rough striations from the impurities. If the planchet splits after the strike, one side will have full detail and the other side will be blank and striated. In either case the coin will be thin.

missing clad layer:A clad coin with one of the clad layers missing either before the coin is struck or which is loose and falls away after the strike. The side of the coin with the clad layer missing will be copper colored showing the exposed copper core of the coin. The other side of the coin is normal.

double strike:If a coin fails to be properly ejected from the striking chamber after being stuck and the dies come down again to strike the coin again, a double strike ocurs. Double strikes can occur with the second strike off center or on-center. In the same way triple and multiply struck coins occur.

Here you have it sir, here are your " SImilarity " or error or common find. PLease do not confuse the "Pennache" as an " similar" or common find. This type is a Museum type error, like it or not...it's a beauty, and picture does justice! God Bless

Error Mechanism.....

Reverse Error :

Mis-Print of reverse partial leaf from Big Maple Leaf,
striked with overflip on Observe ,printed on Queen's hair + number # 7 from 1977 printed on Queen's face for a total of 3 X 777.

Observe Error :
disclosure of missing small Maple Leaf (now naked) due to Mis-print of part of leaf from big Maple leaf, never seen before.

-The only coins out there printed with 3 777's were the year 777, 1777 and the next year being 2777 + 3 777's are also considered to be a lucky number.
-Double rare ERROR = R-8 or Unique ( 1 or 2,3 specimens exists ) +URS 1(Universal Rarety scale ) 1 Known of its Kind.

-1 known to exists for this type of error.

-This coin would constitute to be TOP #1 in any serious Error Collector's Portfolio, A Beautiful addition to a connoisseur collector . A coin to speak of not only of it's beauty but also of it's uniqueness and of it's error mechanism print process, the complexity that have happened for this error to have happened,
the only known penny ever minted revealing:

- the hidden small maple leaf;
- 3 7's
and
- the feather resemblance or leaf in the Queen's hair and the history of the engraving
of a 'devil's head' in the Queen's hair on the 1954 Bank Note from the Bank of Canada

Actual item is in XF (Extremely fine).
all errors on this coin are raised, no dents or any damage is found on this coin, it is GUARANTEED genuine.
This coin is i n t a c t and it is a new discovery unique error ,meaning that the "Pennache" has had no publicity nor was it graded as of yet and is in no doubt a Museum quality error coin.

instructions: click on below links to view big pictures
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... air003.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... air002.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... s/777d.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... zerror.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... afhair.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... s/777e.jpg
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEcO_Uu4uP4

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Bill in Burl · Oct 17, 2011

Wow! Something certified by ACG must CERTAINLY be true!

ziggy9 · Oct 17, 2011

The two of them should get together, They deserve each other!..............(Ziggy runs out of room pulling hhis hair out......)

ikandiggit · Oct 17, 2011

Bill in Burl · Oct 17, 2011

You have to look at the "U-Tube show" link in the post before mine. It's not a dead horse ... 1977 pennache is dead but the 1995 11 cent piece is alive; ACG swears by it and A.H. would never stear you wrong.

ziggy9 · Oct 17, 2011

Bill
It is a dead horse in that many people here have told him time and time again what he really has and he refuses to listen.

Richard

19Lyds · Oct 17, 2011

“Do you think this coin 1943D Bronze Lincoln Cent is much more valuable than to 1995 PPenny On Dime-ACG-Mint- Double Denomination Unique?”

In a Word? – YES!

d.t.menace · Oct 17, 2011

Hey Redwin, you and the Mansionshop should get together and discuss the value of error coins. I think you two have a lot in common.

But please do it via PM's.

desertgem · Oct 17, 2011

The slab doesn't say it is 2 denominations, it say "Penny on Dime Planchet". To me this is just verifying that (1) the planchet was for a dime, and (2) a cent was struck on it. No other indication.

Jim

redwin117 · Oct 26, 2011

Bill in Burl said: ↑

You have to look at the "U-Tube show" link in the post before mine. It's not a dead horse ... 1977 pennache is dead but the 1995 11 cent piece is alive; ACG swears by it and A.H. would never stear you wrong.
Click to expand...

Yes it is, Mr. Alan Hager fully explained to me when I asked him with regards of numerical number like MS 67 or Anything to be attached or included on that slabbed. I was told it is not necessary because my coin has no duplicate it is a major dramatic error. Two Full dates 1995 in obverse, VDB, Two Liberty, IN GOD WE TRUST, P Mintmark, plus another error to add on a skull break and a crack die variety. This was happened in Baltimore Coin Show, Maryland on March 2000. Many peoples attend on that show. Too many witnesses when he certified it.

Plus if they fully understand it the Coin Fact Encyclopedia/PCGS.
http://www.coinfacts.com/error_coins/double_denomination_errors.htm

DOUBLE DENOMINATION ERRORS
One of the most expensive, popular, and desired types of errors are the double denominations. This error happens when a coin is struck on a previously struck coin of another denomination. Examples are a cent on a struck dime, and a nickel on a struck cent. The most dramatic are those with considerable design visible from the original strike. :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

Ps, Thank You Bill.

redwin117 · Oct 26, 2011

ziggy9 said: ↑

Bill
It is a dead horse in that many people here have told him time and time again what he really has and he refuses to listen.

Richard
Click to expand...

It is not a dead horse, But right now is on auction alive n kicking. Too many peoples here, right, but lack of knowledged with regards of Double Denomination. Just try to understand the Coin Fact encyclopedia that all experts behind it was picked up the Double Denomination is the most EXPENSIVE and POPULAR ERROR, but with my understanding is to be a MAJOR DRAMATIC ERROR like mine....plus additional error a Crack Die Variety on reverse plus skull break on obverse...

Knowledge is a KEY in Numismatist World.:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

ikandiggit · Oct 26, 2011

for those who are interested in actual values:

http://coins.ha.com/common/search_results.php?Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles&N=51+790+231+330&Ntt=double%20denomination

redwin117 · Oct 26, 2011

themansionshop said: ↑

You are absolutely right about that , I do understand for most error coins that have sold for a high amount depends on certain criterias such as :
#1 - the coin was publicized, hence people know that it exists
#2- the coin was graded by a recognised grading Co.hence people are now also aware that it was authenticated and is genuine
#3- the rarety of the coin, are there 1 known to exist or more, so availability plays a factor in what the coin may be worth if let say there are 3 error known of the same type of error and only 2 people are interested , then the demand doen't play a part and therefore the error mayt not sell for what the seller would expect to sell it for.
#4-an One of the most important, what type of mechanical error is it? and what are the outcome of the mint error such as where is the error located or what is the complexity scale of the error.
#5 - cash flow or budget also plays , you can't expect everyone to be able to afford a double die error worth $50k

Yes I'm well aware of all those factors and I can assure you I really had no intention of selling it and I have been hidding this error for about a decade now I may never sell it. I have yet to see an error like the " Pennache" and I have been going to auctions and I have been doing my researches over some time now and I really haven't seen anything like it and really couldn't care less if I posted the auction on E-Bay last month for a bid starting at 3 million and had no bid on it. \it wasn't my intention of selling it anyways, $10K offer was on the table but I declined it, why you may ask ? the calculation, beauty and complexity of the error and that is why.
If a two tail cent with 2 same side is worth around $50k+ and if there are approx. 30 known two tail to exist that has 2 of the same print on both reverse and observe be worth that much than that's the error worth which was categorised based on many factors such as the publicity, the availability and demand of the error , the complexity of the mint error for this error to have happened, the eye appeal or beauty of the error, the story it has to tell, how dramatic is the error etc... hence to cut the storie short I have decided after a decade of conserving the "Pennache" to bring it up front for everyone to see. All I ask is that you discontinue your thought in not believing that the "Pennache" is genuine and just believe it is, I know it may be hard to swallow and hard to believe cause this is just too perfect of an error, I mean come on first the leaf missing and not only any leaf but the one that normally blocks the little maple leaf in the background which now reveals the little maple leaf but an overflip strike of the missing leaf printed exactly in the Queen's hair with such little perfect curve almost hiding it alltogether, printed on the observe + that 7 for 3 7's .
I mean that is hard to believe considering all the errors out there known to us all and knowing that, I must sincerely agree with you all.
Click to expand...

Bravooo.. I like your Explanation!:thumb:

medoraman · Oct 26, 2011

redwin117 said: ↑

It is not a dead horse, But right now is on auction alive n kicking. Too many peoples here, right, but lack of knowledged with regards of Double Denomination. Just try to understand the Coin Fact encyclopedia that all experts behind it was picked up the Double Denomination is the most EXPENSIVE and POPULAR ERROR, but with my understanding is to be a MAJOR DRAMATIC ERROR like mine....plus additional error a Crack Die Variety on reverse plus skull break on obverse...

Knowledge is a KEY in Numismatist World.:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
Click to expand...

You know Redwin, I like you. You like your coin, and that is great. You are correct knowledge is key to knowing what you have and enjoying this hobby. Its NOT key to economics.

I will describe a coin I own. This poor thing was struck under Justinian, (the great), restruck under Maurice Tiberius, then cut into 4 sections and struck under another Byzantine emperor, then struck for the last time probably under Justinian II. All of these actions has traces on the coin. Value? Maybe 10 bucks.

The economics of the coin is Byzantine errors are so common they make non-error coins garner a premium. Therefor my coin is not worth much.

Your coin is subject to the same economics. SHOULD it be worth more than a 43 on copper? Maybe, but that coin has a longer pedigree and more publicity. I personally find that coin, as well as 44 steel, 55 double date, and others way overpriced. The same argument could be made of my coin though, right? I mean, yours has traces of 2 denominations, mine has traces of 4 different emperors! Still, mine is 10 bucks, and I am ok with that. I never sell coins, but if I did I doubt I would sell it, as it is interesting to me.

I truly believe and hope you keep your coin as long as you collect, since you probably appreciate more than anyone else, so that is where that coin belongs.

Peace,

Chris

LostDutchman · Oct 26, 2011

Redwin,

Can I ask you how many double denominations errors have you owned over the years?

How many have you sold?

I'd be willing to bet that your answer is 1 and none.

You come here and exclaim things that aren't true... such as "the Double Denomination is the most EXPENSIVE and POPULAR ERROR" when in fact it is neither. I would say by quantity seen on the market that the off center seem to be the most popular. As for being the most expensive... once again... wrong.

You then exclaim that "Knowledge is a KEY in Numismatist World."

tonedcoins · Oct 26, 2011

Just like the OP, redwin117 has tried, for years to become "rich" out of an "error" coin. I don't even read anything they post anymore.

BTW Matt, you are absolutely, 100% correct on the 1 and none part.

tonedcoins · Oct 26, 2011

Come on dude, seriousely? http://www.ebay.com/sch/edwinrd117/m.html?item=110763594108&viewitem=&_rdc=1&_trksid=p4340.l2562

redwin117 · Oct 26, 2011

medoraman said: ↑

You know Redwin, I like you. You like your coin, and that is great. You are correct knowledge is key to knowing what you have and enjoying this hobby. Its NOT key to economics.

I will describe a coin I own. This poor thing was struck under Justinian, (the great), restruck under Maurice Tiberius, then cut into 4 sections and struck under another Byzantine emperor, then struck for the last time probably under Justinian II. All of these actions has traces on the coin. Value? Maybe 10 bucks.

The economics of the coin is Byzantine errors are so common they make non-error coins garner a premium. Therefor my coin is not worth much.

Your coin is subject to the same economics. SHOULD it be worth more than a 43 on copper? Maybe, but that coin has a longer pedigree and more publicity. I personally find that coin, as well as 44 steel, 55 double date, and others way overpriced. The same argument could be made of my coin though, right? I mean, yours has traces of 2 denominations, mine has traces of 4 different emperors! Still, mine is 10 bucks, and I am ok with that. I never sell coins, but if I did I doubt I would sell it, as it is interesting to me.

I truly believe and hope you keep your coin as long as you collect, since you probably appreciate more than anyone else, so that is where that coin belongs.

Peace,

Chris
Click to expand...

Thank You.

Like other peoples own a valuable coin or love to owned they will not goin to sell it If the PRICE is NOT Right!. I wil love to keep it like some of my other valuable one. As it will remember that Mr. ALAN HAGER invented the slab coin/cards holder now that everyone making money of it. The man with an honored as a geniussis in Numismatist World. The man with Honesty that others peoples is trying to destroy his images which is truly wrong....On the other hand he won on that case on his Favor againts the Big four...Case settled on his Favor...
Amen.

redwin117 · Oct 26, 2011

LostDutchman said: ↑

Redwin,

Can I ask you how many double denominations errors have you owned over the years?

How many have you sold?

I'd be willing to bet that your answer is 1 and none.

You come here and exclaim things that aren't true... such as "the Double Denomination is the most EXPENSIVE and POPULAR ERROR" when in fact it is neither. I would say by quantity seen on the market that the off center seem to be the most popular. As for being the most expensive... once again... wrong.

You then exclaim that "Knowledge is a KEY in Numismatist World."

View attachment 143877
Click to expand...

It is your own opinion I respect that.... Coin FACT ENCYCLOPEDIA/PCGS http://www.coinfacts.com/error_coins/double_denomination_errors.htm

DOUBLE DENOMINATION ERRORS
One of the most expensive, popular, and desired types of errors are the double denominations. This error happens when a coin is struck on a previously struck coin of another denomination. Examples are a cent on a struck dime, and a nickel on a struck cent. The most dramatic are those with considerable design visible from the original strike

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t91730-10/#ixzz1bu5cNgR0

LostDutchman · Oct 26, 2011

I will take the fact that you didn't answer my question as my assumption was correct.

How did you arrive at the $8.5 million dollar pricetag?

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1977 " Pennache" R-8+URS-1 Unique double extremely error 1 Museum

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