1974 D JFK Half - DDO? (i know this is not DDO-001. i looked at the sites)

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by cascadecoin, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    I spent all day looking at this. I Googled it and saw a coin just like it on the 'Coin Community' forum from 2/8/18 but nobody gave a good reply and I don't belong to that one. There is only one DDO listed and if that is the case, can somebody please tell me what causes consistent notching that is NOT a doubled die. The variety that is listed shows the notching on the right side and this has some on right but strong from the left. the rays on the reverse have triple and quadrupled lines in some of them. if it were strike doubling, it would be consistent as to where it shows on the coins, correct? this doesn't do that. this one also has doubling on inner ear detail, under chin and designer initials. it seems like everything is doubled from the opposite side. the TR of TRUST has notching on both sides but that coming from the SW is stronger.??? thanks.
     

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  3. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

  4. atrox001

    atrox001 Senior Member

    Looks like MDD (Machine Damage Doubling) to me, especially the TRU, T of LIBERTY, and the inter ear.
     
  5. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    Sorry but the doubling I see appears to be MDD also. It is dramatic and I would keep it myself .

    Jim
     
  6. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    thanks for the reply, Atrox. would two coins come out of the process with identical notching from MDD? the inner ear notches come in from the same SW angle as one side of TRUST, I didn't notice that before but the IN GOD, the notching comes in from the NW. I admit that I look to notching as a big indicator. am I wrong in doing that? I searched my reference books and looked online but couldn't find anything specifically about notching...like the split on both ends of the 9. The T and Y of LIBERTY also have notching on bottom of both sides. is it possible for a coin to have clockwise doubling and counter-clockwise doubling at the same time? some diagnostics do match the 001 but, like I wrote, are weaker. it does have a known DDR so I can sell it as that, I suppose...but I wonder if I am misunderstanding how to look at notches. thanks again for the input, I very much appreciate it.
     
  7. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    thanks, Desert. I guess the fact it's dramatic and that somebody else shows one that has the same IN GOD and some other devices...I am wondering if I don't understand notches. ha...that sounds pathetic but I always take pics like that to highlight notching and they sell. usually I can match it to a source. again thanks.
     
  8. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    IMO, notches can be indicative of true DD, but I have found enough where I could see notches with magnification , but the rest of the image showed MD. I go with the most convincing factor. As I tried to visual it with the drawing of what die doubling looked like, and with the premise that each hubbing pressure and annealing procedure were supposedly the same, the Doubled die coin ( the 72 or 55 lincoln as examples) should be the same height and have greater width due to the overlap . If the die was loose in the holder or misaligned, even though the hubbing was correctly done , the movement of the die upon striking the metal and/or the up motion from the strike of the die , could move the edges of the image. That contact during such movement would cause chattering or smearing of the edges. I do not know of a DD that has notches that one side of it is normal height and the other flattened. Maybe some one could hypothesize that the person doing the hubbing didn't complete the full depression of the die, but I feel that is less likely . I would like also any input from people who have thought about this more. Thank you for bringing up the subject. Jim

    p.s. All based on multistrike hubbing, not current single hubbing.
     
  9. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

     
  10. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    Jim, thanks for the thoughtful, in depth reply. I appreciate you asking the community, as well. the other person who found the one shown in this link never got a real reply. what is most hard for me to ignore is IN GOD. even in the full obverse pic of the link, it is naked eye. also, I didn't want to post TOO many pics in case it was an easy answer. the extra pics not in the link are additional pics of my coin, in case they help. this is the link of the other one...https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=307740...

    also, here are some devices I didn't show on mine. thanks again for the thought you put into it. I posted the T and Y of LIBERTY to show the doubled notch on the bottoms of each, the I with the missing left lower serif and notch on lower right, a shot of the rays from the reverse to show what is happening on the other side and another angle on TRUST. I do see some flat sections on TRUST that make it look like strike double plus some other issue. mike
     

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  11. SlipperySocks

    SlipperySocks Well-Known Member

    I too have this coin with similar characteristics but not as good a shape set aside somewhere. Can you post more focused pics of IN GOD and hit the "Full Image" button before posting? Lights can do tricky things under a scope but from what I am used to seeing it looks like legitimate doubling to me with some MD mixed in. Especially on IN GOD and the bottom of the I and Y of LIBERTY. Are you looking just to sell this coin or are you hunting DD's for your own collection?
     
  12. atrox001

    atrox001 Senior Member

    I agree with SlipperySocks, we need to see a better photo to determine if there is doubling on IN. I am not a fan of LED lighting, you may have a lighting issue playing tricks. I use a halogen desk lamp with a white cloth filter (piece of a pillow case) for my photos. Could we see a photo of IN like the one attached?
    Larry Nienaber
    ODV-004 IN.JPG
     
  13. Jim sullivan

    Jim sullivan Toned coins rule

    Im not the super cool grand puba DD coin grading expert in these here parts, but looks like a real deal legitimate doubled die to me!!! Hope it turns out to be!! Happy huntin!!
     
  14. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    thanks, Slippery...will post more pics today. I am thinking the same as you - legitimate doubling with MD. I usually sell from mint sets and try to get good shots through the mint cello. this is the first coin I removed from the cello to get better shots of. I did compare it to other 1974s along with some 1973 & 1978. I found a very similar IN GOD on one of the 1978s but the other 1974s I have are not like this. I am eventually going to sell it, once I can properly define it. I don't like to look shady or stupid by describing it wrong. I got a suggestion to keep it but at my age, I am trying to shrink my footprint and I have nobody to leave a collection to. as to the 'full image' button - i'll try it. maybe I read over the rules to fast to see that but i'll find it. thanks for your input.
     
  15. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    Larry, thanks again. I am planning to upgrade the USB scope in the very near future but it is all I have for now. I did comparisons with other coins of the same year and others (see previous response I made this morning to SlipperySocks). I can't use the scope to make notches where there aren't any. if I can't see good clear notches, I look at a really high degree of magnification. I am more than happy tp post more since you folks have been kind enough to comment. i'll get them up today. mike.
     
  16. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    thanks for the opinion, Jim. I do think there is some MD which confuses the issue. SlipperySocks and the person in that other forum thread I posted have similar coins, so that gives me faith in it not being a one-off. anyway, thanks for the encouragement. have a good weekend.
     
  17. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    thanks, again, and let me know if these help...mike Sat Jan 19 11-54-41.jpg Sat Jan 19 11-59-32.jpg Sat Jan 19 12-12-31.jpg Sat Jan 19 12-14-09.jpg Sat Jan 19 12-21-06.jpg
     
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  18. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    funny...I just looked at USA CoinBook and there is one in the latest listings but is being sold as a regular half. you can see the missing bottom serif of the I in LIBERTY and the split bottom on Y...it looks like the IN GOD, too....it is posted by Coinrat for $1.88 but is circulated. I always look at the I out of habit, due to the 1964 enhanced hair variety. usually if the bottom left serif is missing, there is more to see. that's what made me look close at this mine.
     
  19. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    I just looked at auctions on the PCGS site. PCGS names this coin two different ways on the slabs. some say Doubled Die Obverse, some say FS-101 (015) and I thought I saw one that was a FS-101 without the (015). my understanding is that the coin has to be attributed before it is sent to PCGS(?). I never slabbed any. it just makes me wonder why they use the number on some but not others.
     
  20. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    I wouldn't assume that MD or other than a true DD wouldn't be multiple coins. I have gone through fresh bags of 1968-72 cents, and if I found one MD, I would find many multiples. Having the coin in hand for use of a good magnifier or scope is almost a necessity for conclusion as USB scopes as common as they are do have their problems, Best of luck! Jim
     
  21. cascadecoin

    cascadecoin COOLEST OF THEM ALL

    thanks, Jim. I was assuming MD was a bit random, in that it didn't strike precisely the same way each time, but that the GG part did. I need to move to a tabletop magnifier since the USB is flimsy and my hands hurt after a day of holding down the stand. it's a newbie-scope. I really just started selling coins less than a year ago but had fun collecting varieties. thanks for the input. all best, mike
     
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