1973 S lincoln penny

You are being to literal. If you get a coin from a coin shop that says MS on the slab. Modern or even an 1800's are you saying that it was never touched by anyone? Slabs were only created back in the 80's. If your theory is correct all coins older than that are circulated.

MS is a condition if it does not show signs of circulation then it is anyone's best guess if it has been.

Mint sets get broken up all the time.
Bags of new coinage get rolled and sent out to banks. There are plenty if those coins that show zero signs of being circulated.

The best thing you can do as a collector is study MS coins and learn how to grade coins. If you do these fallacies won't be a thought in your mind.

 

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It pains me that you just don't get it.

 

Perhaps you should really be taking up your argument with PCGS. I'm not certain where you get your information. Here's what they have to say about Mint State grading:

Mint State refers to a coin minted for regular distribution that was never actually put into circulation, i.e., it was never used for daily commerce; it is uncirculated.[4] Since individuals never used these coins to purchase goods or services, the coins were not handed from one person to another; they were not jumbled up with other coins in pockets or purses; and they were not repeatedly counted—and touched—by retailers and bank personnel. Consequently, uncirculated coins should not show signs of wear.[α]

In modern-day United States numismatics, collectors, coin dealers, and third-party grading services grade mint state coins using a number from 60 to 70 inclusive, with 70 representing a perfect coin with no visible blemishes. Coins in the lower grade range (60-63), although unworn, may suffer from weak striking, bag marks and other defects that make them less attractive to the collector. Some early coins appear quite worn-looking in mint state, due to striking problems or problems with the coin's planchet or metal quality—in other words, they look worn, but they are actually uncirculated coins. There are a few United States coins for which no mint state specimens exist,[10][11] e.g., the 1792 silver disme,[12] and the 1802 Draped Bust (Heraldic Eagle reverse) silver half dime.[13][14]

 

We now have a new definition of literal. Several members have tried but you object to all of them. While we don't find them every day we do find MS coins in circulation. You can not apply literal thinking to the normal for most people. Since you continue to reject logic from well known members with sound reasoning I will no longer attempt to get you to understand reality. Good day sir.

 

When I started CRH a couple of years ago, I believed what @HaleiwaHI believes: a coin found in circulation (bank rolls, etc.) cannot be called “Uncirculated” or MS. But then a member on CT told me, “Grade refers to a coin’s condition, not it’s history.” And since a coin’s condition is a lot easier to determine than it’s history, I agree with what he told me.

 

@HaleiwaHI ...it may be helpful to you to look at it as a coin showing "evidence of circulation" (EOC).

New coins found in mixed bank rolls do not show the same degree of circulation/non-circulation as older issues from the same roll...in fact, the new ones exhibit differing degrees of "no wear", the minimum degree of condition being MS60, as you well know.

So, if the coin shows no wear, but has excessive luster breaks, tiny bag/contact marks or hairline scratches or a light scuff...the evidence showing is of circulation and, IMHO, would render the condition to be less than Mint State ( AU59). Just because AU59 is not seen normally in grading anymore, doesn't mean the grade is not correct for the coins found.

All of us have seen TPG grades we disagree with, across the entire grading spectrum. The bottom line is staying true to yourself, being realistic and never wishing a grade on a coin.

Hope this helps, Spark

 

There is a good deal of this kind of contact that happens in the Bag. When these coins are hauled to the rolling facility's they endure a great amount of friction.

The biggest question that you have to deal with is where does circulation start.
does it start before the public has a chance to touch it Or when it falls into the hopper after being struck? I pulled four coins today that would grade above 64. Even if we used the old school way.

 

I am not a US coin dealer. I can objectively respond.

The current Lincoln cents, Jefferson nickels and Roosevelt dimes have no long term investment potential. Therefore, the MS scale for those coins in UNC are meaningless. Your 2019 dated cent (example) is worth face value in UNC or not UNC. If you want to pay more than face value for a 2019 cent that is graded MS 70, you are free to do so. If you want to submit your 2019 cent for professional grading, you are free to do so. I will challenge you to sell that professionally graded 2019 cent for more than $1.

Washington quarters are only marginally better as a long term investment. Again, your 2019 quarter will only be worth face value in UNC. If you can find somebody who will pay more, great, but don't expect it.

Dealers must sell above face value to make a profit. They need a way to convince you. The MS scale is little more than a pyramid scheme. How do I know? In the 1960s dealers sold rolls and bags instead of single coins because inflation had already eroded the value of a 1 cent profit. Those rolls and bags are being sold today at face value just to get them out of inventory. Most of the UNC discoveries by this board from roll searching likely came from a dumped roll or bag.

It is tough to make a profit selling 2019 circulation strike coins because they aren't rare, scarce or difficult to find. The "W" coins are another shell game for dealers. You can keep your "W" quarters for the next 40 years, and all you'll get is less than the value of a deflated 2019 dollar.

Roll searching is fun. But... you aren't going to turn a profit unless you buy a lottery ticket with your finds and win the lottery.

Most US dealers do not like me. I'm sure you can see why. I won't recommend current US coins to anyone as an investment. I do recommend buffalo nickels. Very undervalued in circulated grades for all but the key dates. I bought a 1913 S type one dateless buffalo nickel for 25 cents out of his junk box. A valuable find, and no MS grade is available!!!

 

SHOULD be the end of that discussion.

But others' opinions are like hindquarters, and how they wipe 'em - front-to-back, back-to-front, sideways, blot, swirlie, etc., .......