1971-S Eisenhower Lottery

Thank you so much!!! I couldn't have taken better pic myself! That is exactly what I am looking at.

Ruben, I know this was hard for me, but I always thought that doubled dies were very obvious. But that is only because we are so familiar with the big ones like the 55 or 72 Lincolns which were very obvious DDs. His pictures are perfect. I was thinking that the only way I would get the pics that I need was through a stereo microscope. Look at all the lettering..... everything is slightly doubled. Look at the base of the T and R, then look at the I and N and G. All have traces of doubling. Made me rethink on what to look for when I am looking for doubled dies. The reverse of my 72S had doubled stars as well. Thanks 19LDYS for the pics! :thumb:

 

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I wouldn't call you stupid as much as I'd say you do not know what to look for.





If you are looking for something like the 1955/55 Lincoln, I can tell you to stop your search right now because that extremely heavy spread is nearly non-existant with IKE dollars as that could be spotted immediately by the press operators. The spread on this coin is whats know as "medium spread" whereas "light spread" is more typical for the IKEs.

The arrows indicate the letter separation.

For the 1971-S FS-103, the spread is much more distinct!

 

Here's a 1971-S DDR that I picked out of a dealers "bargain box" for about $7.00!





I definitely need to get better pictures of this one.

 

Well then what about this one? This one seems to have even more pronounced doubling in the 6's 9, 7, E,R,and T . I'd just chalked this up to mechanical doubling which isn't that exciting.

 

This is simply machine doubling which on the Eisenhowers, can get quite dramatic!



BTW, there s a Master Doubled Die for the BiCentennial coins which shows distinct doubling on the upper serifs of the 1's in the date.

 

So what do you think of the one I posted? Machine doubling or a double die? For the life of me I don't know the difference and nothing I've read so far convinces me that anyone else can either.

Ruben

 

http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/OtherFormsOfDoubling.htm

tell me any of this makes sense at all

 

I assume your referring to the splits on the serifs. It's hard. I can't claim I could ever tell the difference, and it seems that even the experts aren't certain how mechanical doubling exactly happens, or how to describe it. In the photo I posted, the 7 in 1976 and the E in We seem to have splits in the serifs as well, but I already admit that I can't tell the difference.

Ruben

 

It all makes sense if you break each part down.

The real value in a doubled die is that each coin produced from that die is exactly the same. The only differences would be in die state as dies do wear out, crack, and clash.

Doubling on a coin means nothing if it occured during the minting process. The real value comes when the doubling occurs before the minting process during die production.

Some doubling is quite dramatic while others are nearly undetectable. The Eisenhower series is loaded with extremely minor doubled dies and I suspect the reason for this is the shear size of the coin.

Trust me, once you fully understand what to look for, you'll not only find doubled dies in the Eisenhower Series but in every other series of coins. Kennedy's have lots and lots while the Washington series also has a fair number.

Not all of them are remarkable or even command any kind of extra premium, but they are still doubled dies.

The break through piece of equipment for me was in purchasing a Stereo Microscope since I cannot loupe worth a poop. The scope makes it much easier to detect these coins (unless they jump at you of course like the 72/72)

For the Eisenhower Dollars, look at the serifs of the motto on the obverse and the C in AMERICA on the Reverse. These will usually indicate doubling by having some type of split in the serifs. Once you spot these, other doubling on the coin will be easy to spot.

 

Machine doubling occurs when the coin starts the ejection process before the hammer die has complete cleared the coin or when either the hammer or anvil die's have slight movement during the coining process.

Similar to twisting or moving a "rubber ink stamp" before lifting it off the paper.

Keep in mind that the coining process involves multiple tons of pressure exerted several times a minute so things can and do loosen up which is where these machine doubled coins come from.

 

Anacs - Front Page. I hope your getting a piece of the action Lyds
_____________________________
From the President's Desk.

If you have been reading the numismatic press lately you have probably noticed the spate of articles about discoveries that ANACS’ graders have recently made. One front-page story discussed a Proof 1971-S Eisenhower dollar. ANACS’ graders determined that the coin was a prototype. Prior to making the designation, ANACS sought the input of recognized Ike experts from CONECA (the world’s largest organization of error collectors), Tom DeLorey, a long-ago ANACS grader and “The Ike Group,” renowned Eisenhower dollar collectors. The coin’s owner paid $10 for the coin at the February Long Beach Show and wasn’t at all certain what he had found, nor what it might be worth. Now that it’s been certified by ANACS, the coin is valued in the thousands of dollars.

 

I wish! Ha ha ha!

Actually, we specifically chose ANACS because ANACS is not governed by Market Acceptability but by the coin collecting hobby. Our primary concern was that we did not want to have to "school" someone on what to look at and what to look for as can be the case with many IKE's. To this day, folks eve graders still have difficulties in determining Type 1, 2, and 3 1972 coins as well as Type 1 and Type 2 BiCentennial coins. JP Martin at ANACS was the first name to pop up while NGC was also discussed. On consensus, we agreed that JP was the best selection based upon recommendation from James Wiles and JP's experience with the 1971-S Type 1 Proof coins. We felt that he and ANACS were the best selection for detailed objective analysis.

Sure, I would have liked the coin in a PCGS Slab but PCGS is a grading company and not a variety authenticating company. To this very day, they still have little interest in viewing or even slabbing the coin. (Its not like I haven't asked.)

NGC would have been a good choice as well as they do like to attribute and authenticate varieties but we felt that ANACS was the best bet.

My experience with ANACS has always been on the highest of levels since, as I stated, ANACS is the coin collectors company. They are not afraid to call it like it is and actually attribute coins. Granted, their slabs do not always bring top dollar in the open market but with this specific coin we didn;t feel that this was of paramount importance. Getting it authenticated was the number one goal as the coin itself is a dramatic departure from anything that has been discovered for the Eisenhower Dollar in the past 9 years!

One might sit back and wonder how significant varieties can be overlooked for so long but with the IKE, the answer is simple: Nobody ever really looks at them! For this I'm grateful as it gave me the opportunity to find something really unique.

 

Didn't ICG essentially become ANACS a few years ago?

Ruben

 

Yes they did but JP Martin was the focus.

ANACS does not have any problems in attributing specific Eisenhower Die Varieties unlike PCGS which will only recognize the varieties in the Cherry Pickers Guide.

 

Very interesting. Tell me something about the Biography of JP Martin

Ruben

 

From my standpoint, JP attributed the 1971-S Type 1 Proofs while at ICG. He is a well known expert in identifying and attributing die varieties and came highly recommended.

We wnated someone that KNEW there were different IKEs out there and JP filled the bill.

 

Pushing up doubling again...

 

Very Cool Thread Two in One

I think this is a very cool thread Two different Ike subjects looked at is some depth at the same time Very Cool

 

Your reliving all my best moments