1971 P Nickel... Scarce?

Has anyone else noticed this date/mm is not found in circulation?

I have been simultaneously filling two nickel folders over the last year and I am down to the last hole for each. BOTH are 1971-P!!!! Since when did this coin become hard to find??? Or is it just an amazing coincidence?

 

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Are you collecting from circulation?


[edit] Duh, read the whole post.

 

Not to my knowledge.... though, perhaps if viewed in direct comparison to other dates/mints of that era, its mintage was somewhat smaller than most, but to rightfully be called "scare" (as a date/mint) seems a stretch. As for if any other factors could be involved, I don't know... perhaps @cladking would be more familiar.

 

Yes

 

I checked on eBay out of curiousity and they sell for over $2 which means it's not scarce but the market definitely realizes there is a shortage of these. All other post-1960 nickels sell for about a dollar (or less).

 

"They" sell for over $2 each? So does that mean any dog pulled out of one's pocket is worth that? I'm guessing not....perhaps you should clarify and explain exactly what conditions you're looking at and/or for.

Again, if you compare mintages, you'll see that it was made in lesser numbers that most dates/mints of that era, but still over 100 million were produced. Perhaps there's another factor coming into play ("survival rate"... remember?), I don't know.

 

From my eBay search I got the impression that your average-circulated-pulled from pocket change example was selling for over $2. Of course that doesn't mean it's worth that much since you have to deduct for postage and fees. However we can reasonably assume that postage is the same for all nickels so the higher price for 1971-P suggests it less common.

The mintage is lower so that most probably has something to do with it, but as you point out the mintage of over 100 million has me wondering if there's something else affecting it's availability, or lack thereof.

I don't know if survival rate has anything to do with its scarcity since it wasn't that long ago and nickels are durable. I'm wondering if this date/mm was maybe sent outside the US in larger figures than most other dates. Or maybe there are large quantities sitting in vaults somewhere. I just don't know. I was hoping someone could shed some light on it.

 

After your previous mention of this I did a short and very quick scan of completed listings. My impression was that most had been taken from sets or sold as gen uncs, but again this was only a very quick scan through part of the first page. If circ examples of this date/mint are in fact selling that high, I too would be very interested to know why.

Survival is more important than mintage even if in some cases both numbers are far too large to really matter. A good example of this was the 1903-O Morgan, which was considered the great rarity of the series and commanded extreme premiums prior to the discovery of, if I recall correctly, a number of mint bags in the early 60's. If one looked only at the mintage prior to said discovery, they would assume it to have been a fairly common coin even though this was far from the case.

I am far from familiar with the histories and availability of such coins, and is why I tagged (?) the gentleman in my first post. If I am remembering the name correctly, I've always been very impressed with his knowledge in this area, so perhaps he'll chime in and shed some light on the subject. Perhaps there's an interesting little history lesson in here somewhere.

 

Have you tried looking for a 1971 Philly Mint Set? That's where I got mine.

Chris

 

I've thought about that and have come close a couple times, but at the last second I change my mind. I keep going back to the thought of trying to find it at face value.

I could probably get the entire set for about $5 which includes the halves, quarters, dimes and cents, but I don't need those nor would I be able to sell them for a profit. If I put them into circulation for face I would still have paid a few dollars for just the nickel. So I keep trying to stay patient to see if I can get it for only 5c in change or roll hunting

I'll probably have to end up buying it if I can't find it after a long while of searching. Then I fear I will find 10 of them soon after buying it

 

I can buy a 71 mint set for < $3.

 

You can find a '71 nickel in change; they aren't that tough.

Finding a nice attractive coin with little wear gets harder every year because collectors are skimming off the nice ones and there aren't that many left. They made 106 million and they are very durable but they have no real value any longer because there's nothing you can buy for 5c. This means they get tossed in the garbage and when they're dropped people won't even bother to pick them up. They're just 7c place holders for coins that used to have real value.

About 45,000,000 survive and they tend to be pretty beat up. Really nice VF is about the best you can hope for.

Roll coins are sucky and and poorly made while mint set coins are excellent. This is common in six steps. Mint set coins often have surface issues and now days about 60% have a heavy haze on them. About one coin in four in mint sets is nice and very choice and Gems run about 2% except for the haze which often comes off in alcohol.

 

You might also find a 1913 V Nickel in a roll, but I doubt that you will find 10 of them after you've bought one.

Chris

 

The reality of modern coinage shows it's head. The prevailing thought that "they made billions" is going to catch-up with collectors. Yes, they made a lot, but most of them are JUNK, even from mint sets.

 

People have always had this idea that all you have to do is want one and a nice MS-70 modern will appear in your hand by magic. The thinking is that they made billions of coins and if even one in a million is perfect then that's still lots of coins. Therefore they don't collect them and don't even bother to look at them. Would be hoarders look at a bag of coins to save and they look so junky they don't even bother.

Sure they made lots of Gems but now most of them have been recycled with old cars and most all the rest are beat up in circulation. Nobody saved any of the Gems and most moderns would barely exist at all if not for mint sets. Now days we're running out of mint sets because they get cut up and spent and the coins often have a horrible haze on them (especially the '71). They didn't care about the nickels back in '71 and they haven't cared since.

The damn catalogs like the Redbook seem to believe they owe it to their customers to bash moderns so they list the extremely uncommon Gem 1971 at $1.50 which is less than an XF brings on eBay!!!

An MS-60 1971 nickel is scarcer than the 1950-D and a Gem accounts for fewer than 3% of all uncs but they list it at $1.50. If people realized how ugly most MS-60 and MS-63 moderns are they'd realize that most collectors aren't going to be satisfied with them. They're going to want nice choice BU and gemmy coins and these are quite tough for most moderns. They're only available at all because people think they are copmmon so they still don't collect them and they think they're common because of a screwy grading system and catalogers who trash them.

I beginning to believe there has been a concerted effort for over 25 years to suppress the modern market. Collectors see the ridiculously low prices listed and then don't want to buy one at the prevailing rate. Nobody would want to pay $50 for a coin that lists at $2.75. This isn't just a single publication like the Redbook but all of them.

 

Indeed....thanks for injecting the thought about the "book prices" conspiracy, I agree 100%.

I can attest to that, it also applies to proof sets, I seen my dealer behind the counter with hundreds of sets cutting them up and throwing most into his cash register till. I have literally cherrypicked my change from him and found quite a few keepers.

Haze is just one problem, you also have MDS/LDS, poor strikes, and irremovable spots.

 

These coins can be just awful. If you have 100 original 1975 mint sets in perfect condition about 40 of the Philly Ikes aren't nice enough to sell as BU!! While these are the worst there are other coins like the '69 quarter that just comes awful in the sets. They're better than BU roll coins if there were BU rolls but they're awful. These coins have been cheap and getting put intocash registers for a very long time sand now manyt of them are starting to go bad in addition. The coins should have been removed from the packaging and soaked in acetone years ago.

 

I've been completing my modern sets by buying and cutting up mint and proof sets. I buy them mostly at the Whitman shows in Baltimore. I take my time and go through each set looking for nice ones... it is tough, especially for some years. 1968 - 1970, and many of the mid-late 80's in particular tend to look pretty bad, especially the half dollars. I did get a really nice 1971 set though. The philly nickel is full steps and bright cartwheel.

 

I've got to believe you'll be glad you did in time.

Collectors always do lots better financialkly than investors because collectors know which coins are tough (like the mid to late-'80's clad) so they pick them up when they see them instead of just plopping down money for any coin a dealer tells them is rare and will go up in price. If these clads and moderns do go up you can trade off your duplicates and even the collection itself for something that's undervalued at that time.

The circulating moderns are going to do great, I just don't know when. But I do know that mint sets are drying up and there's no other source for the coins. This just can't go on forever like this.

 

You are the man @cladking !

Bringing the knowledge strong as usual.

Thank you.