1967 Washington Quarter SMS DDO FS-101 - Found! Maybe NOT!

I am not sure of the grade yet as I do not know Washington's very well but it is nice but not clean as I am used to. It was a fluke that I found this as I was looking through my nickels for Cameos and came across this and thought Machine Doubling etc. Then I typed it in my price guide and saw the price and the Cherry picker's reference and pulled my book. Mine looks better than the one in the guide I think. Ok you Washington guru's what have I got? What is your guess at grade? Possible value?












I am seeing stupid prices for this coin IF it is what I think it is. I also see some sold for around $100 in MS67. I know very little of Washington's so I hope someone here can tell me just what I have here. Is this one worth a slab at ANACS?

 

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Your coin exhibits MD. It is not a doubled die.

 

Maybe you can get Star Grading Service (SGS) to attribute it for you because it's really only machine doubling and I know that neither PCGS, NGC, ANACS, nor even ICG will attribute this coin as a doubled die.




Oh wait...................Did I fall for another joke?? Come on.... be honest.

You're fooling right??

 

I agree, especially looking at the photo of Liberty the (L) and the (I). Sorry , MD in my opinion.

 

Sorry, I wouldn't consider this a DDO.

 

Well I guess it is not what I thought it was. It matched what I saw in the Cherry Picker's guide to a T or so I thought.

Would this be MD?

 

And no, I was not joking. I thought it was MD but when I looked at it I thought different. Here look at the L.



That is split like I am used to seeing with doubled coins.

Here are some more, if MD then fine.

Was that really needed? I mean the SGS is just a asinine remark. There is no reason to be that way. Not everyone is a grand master such as yourself. Geez

 

Btw for those trying learn such as myself, this picture is off a NGC graded Example.

 

Yes, it has machine doubling. The rest of the coin needs to be evaluated for a positive attribution. Not just the motto.

 

PCGSCoinFacts provides a little bit better images.

Note, Despite what the CPG shows, the strength of Doubling on this coin is NOT the motto but LIBERTY. Specifically:



Note the huge serif split.



What "appears" to be machine doubling is actually Die Doubling on the B although the coin does present machine doubling in some areas. Take note of the extensions on the letter "E". Strong, clear separation.



Lastly, the huge serif Split on the "R" and "T" are unmistakeable.

This represents one of the Major Problems with the Cherry Pickers Guide. Poor documentation where 2 minimal and at best, bleary out of focus photographs were chosen which simply DO NOT represent the doubling presented on the 1967 FS-101.

PCGSCoinfacts has this particular FS coin well represented.

 

It does not take a Grand Master to spot Machine Doubling without even a hint of die doubling and the remark was appropriate since it does NOT match the CPG to a "T" despite your insistence that it does.

Research is simple and necessary but WITHOUT the friggin CPG which basically shows nothing.

My reply stands since the only hope of getting your coin within a slab rests with SGS since it is obviously not the DDO FS-101 coin and as such, none of the top TPG's will attribute it as such.

If you think it's asinine then you are certainly welcome to your opinion. But really, what were you hoping to accomplish by grabbing a clip from NGC and then asking if it was MD? Make folks look like fools?

 

Well not everyone has that down pat as of yet. Like I said, I thought MD first and then found the Entry on Cherry Pickers and then of course the NGC picture. Yeah I guess I am a total idiot for even thinking I had something nice.

I did with what tools I have...Google Foo, CP guide, and pictures from the Bay and Coneca Site. I even went here and saw nothing,

http://varietyvista.com/Doubled Dies.htm

Well it was obvious to YOU. It would seem that I was not the only one fooled with these particular circumstances. The SGS comment was crap and you know it. Maybe I could put it in a '19Lyds' slab and that would make it legit. I call BS.

Oh I do, your derogatory way of presenting that what the coin was not a legit DDO was quite obvious to me. The reason I asked if the NGC picture was MD was exactly what I said. It was a picture of a coin that GOT the FS from NGC and it had no pictures like you you provided from PCGS Coinfacts, which I have no access to.


Coin Snobbery...

 

MD

 

Just to clarify the question you asked about this photo, yes, this example shows some slight MD, but this is the legitimate doubled die.

 

Well after I got home, I did some checking and added some new pictures. The markers Mr. 19 put forward from his membership at Coinfacts are not seen on my coin. The only thing I can say is I have a split on the L but it is nothing like the pictures.





And the R's are not even close...





So it begs the question, on the NGC example I posted, what is the double die in those pictures? I assume the one that posted that for sale just put that particular pictures as it is easiest to see.

I have many Doubled Dies in my Kennedy's and I thought I knew how to recognize
them but yet I am still learning...

Here is an easy one....





I will continue to look into this one, and check my many 67 SMS Quarters and see if I can get lucky.

 

Please explain what I need to look for in the NGC Photo, I just can not see it.

 

I have confirmed this is NOT the Doubled Die. I have been bitten by Machine Doubling. I went through 20 of my sets, and found 3 more with MD as dramatic as the coin posted by me. Lesson learned I hope.


It said right there in the Cherry Pickers Guide that this was possible and I did not see it. See the bottom statement.

 

Given time on these and everyone improves a lot. Even then on a forum, unless it is a "giant' offset, you will get a split result because they don't have it in hand and can observe from all angles. When a person uses direct and/or multiple light sources, the reflections can appear to be doubling, or slight serif separation can be hidden. You do have the important personality to admit when you are wrong, as this is jump in learning~ The more you can recognize as close but NOT a variety, the easier it is to start seeing them. Many people argue profusely and say wait till I get it back from TPG, and you will see~ but we seldom see such come back.

 

When I am wrong I admit it. That is why I posted it here, to get the answers I needed as I first thought MD but the CP guide threw me off. I only got irked in how I was told it was MD. Oh well I guess I will just keep looking.....

 

There are two die stages of this variety-one with just the hub doubling (the good kind) which is Die Stage "A" and one with additional machine doubling which is Die Stage "B." The former is much scarcer and is worth more-maybe 1 1/2 to 2 X the value of Die Stage B. That's what the text refers to-the difference between the two die stages. In any case, the CPG values are insanely high-these usually bring around $150-$200 in MS65 or better. I've been working with Mike Ellis, the current editor, to list some realistic values for the series with which I'm well versed in the upcoming CPG. BTW-I always use LIBERTY for the pick-up point for the coin cited. Look for the notching at the corners of the letters as is pointed out by 19Lyds. The example he shows is of the much scarcer Stage A.