1961 Franklin just beautiful

Alan,

I am sorry but I can't take anymore of this thread. I have typed a response three times and decided not to post it each time because I like you and don't want to offend you. But as this thread has progressed I have changed my thinking about the information I am about to give you. It may offend you slightly, but if you take the information constructively, it will help you avoid making a costly mistake in the future.

1) It is impossible to grade proof coins from photos. Not difficult, IMPOSSIBLE. You can't see hairlines. You can't evaluate the mirrors. The appearance of the coin including the color is almost always different in hand. For these reasons, if you are going to buy a proof coin sight unseen, you should restrict yourself to purchasing PCGS and NGC graded examples.

2) When an online seller offers a photograph at an extreme angle, you should RUN the other way. And when I say RUN, I mean RUN as if there was a polar bear chasing you. The purpose of photographing coins at angles is make the coin look better than it really is. You see, it makes absolutely no difference if the seller sends you the coin in the photo or any other proof that he has in his stock. Using that photographic method, he can make almost every one appear flawless. Based on what I have seen from this seller, I would never buy anything from him.

3) From the seller's perspective, at this point he has probably deemed you a problem customer. He listed on his website that it was a stock photo and you insisted that you wanted the coin in the photo for an item that he is selling at very close to melt. Don't think of the gross sales amount of $18. Think about how much profit he is going to make of this item. It is not much and unless you ordered other items in addition to this coin, I am sure he is not losing a second of sleep about losing you as a customer. I am not saying it is right, rather I am looking at the reality of the situation.

4) IMO, you didn't get a great coin at a great price. You are getting a piece of silver bullion at retail price. I took a quick look on E-Bay and found a few NGC PF67 1961 Franklins with cameo contrast available for less than $50. And in that grade, it is considered a widget. The graded population in PF67 is 6712/2344 and they usually sell for $30-$40. I purchased my 1961 Franklin Half NGC PF67 12 years ago for $28.



The value has only increased a few dollars and that increase is solely related to the increase in silver value. My guess is that the coin you ordered will not even grade PF65. You must realize that your coin has no numismatic value at all which is why the bullion seller your purchased it from was selling it for a bullion price using his photo magic advertising.

5) I understand that you want to assemble a raw collection, but there is just no protection when buying raw coins sight unseen. You can try, but I promise, you will run into the same problems over and over again. My advice is to buy PCGS & NGC graded coins and then crack them out. Let's put it this way. I am very proficient at grading Jefferson Nickels, my chosen series. But when I purchase coins for my album collection, I buy PCGS and NGC graded coins and I crack them out. The reason is simple. I can't grade coins using the crappy photos that most online seller provide. No matter how good I am at grading Jefferson Nickels and interpreting photos, the cost of the return postage for the number of coins that I would need to return would make buying raw coins a losing proposition. It is much easier and cheaper to buy graded coins, a towel, and a hammer. I promise that it won't cost more than buying them raw. As an example, I purchased this toned 1947-D Jefferson Nickel PCGS MS65 for $22.50 and the PCGS Price Guide is $22. Perhaps you will recognize the seller from the photo below.





I know this has been really long winded, but I felt that if I was going to give you some advice, it might as well contain some real useful information rather than a short critical quip.

 

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I agree with you 100% Here's a couple pics of the same coin to make it clearer.

The first one is most like the coin, it has scratches on the fields and everything.

 

Hi Lehigh96
First let me say Thank you for some excellent advise, got to be truthful here, I had never though of that.
You in no way offended me, you just said the truth, with respect and are trying to help a fellow collector.
As fare as the coin goes I still have to have faith in myself that I have not bought a coin from someone trying to take advantage of me.
The seller and I have been emailing back and forth and are becoming friends. Will that be the same when I receive the coin, that remains to be seen.

As fare as this thread goes all I did was post a new coin I had bought, I never expected it to get this long.
Thank you again my friend, I will buy my next coin graded if the price is right, and await it with hammer and towel in hand. LOL
All the Best
Alan

 

*sigh

 

Same coin........different angle.

 

I agree with Lehigh and have long disliked sellers using overly tilted coins to sell their merchandise. I will almost bet my life that your coin will look nothing like the image you provided, with the exception of the appearance of Ben and the Liberty Bell.

While the photo does grab your attention, the color is way off and the angle makes it impossible to see any imperfections that may be hiding.

Here are a couple of photos of the same coin taken several years ago.

 

I'm waiting to hear about what Alan receives. I'm sure he'll love it.

I know that I have a few that I love. :devil:

 

Doug,

I agree with that policy if buying from a new dealer. But the other thing you have preached for years is to buy coins from a dealer that you trust. If I trust the seller, I will usually trust his photographs as well, or at the very least, understand how to interpret his photographs. And while there is no substitute for buying coins sight seen, quality trustworthy photographs can go a long way to bridge that gap. It certainly is the same as buying the coin completely sight unseen.

 

Hi Guys
I have to be able to trust someone, how else am I going to buy my coins?
I bought this coin from a dealer on ebay. I did not expect it to be quite as good as it looked.
Well It did! I have bought many more and they where just as nice in hand as the picture.

But I had to take a chance with the one coin first.
Alan

 

Are you kidding me? I would jump for either or, because the first looks nice, but if it looks more like the second in hand, it would be even better because it is a cameo coin!

 

Maybe that was a bad example, but I was just showing how photos could be manipulated with different looks. In this case I wasn't trying to hide anything and I actually like both photos.

 

Hey robec
They are two very well taken pictures. both very nice.
Alan

 

Thanks Alan. For $16 I think you will come out very good. I've bought sight unseen more times than I would like to admit. Some turned out good, others not. Be sure to post your Frankie when he arrives.

 

Thanks Bob
Will do as soon as I receive it.
But my pictures are no where near close to your quality
Alan

 

The photos posted in this thread are just the tip of the iceberg of what dishonest sellers can do with pictures to make coins look better. Proofs are hard to photograph. That's a given. And many sellers aren't great photographers. But some of them know all the tricks using angles, colored lighting, low lighting. You just have to know what a good quality picture is supposed to look like. You can evaluate the rest of them from there once your expectations have been set.

I'm glad the OP was not offended by the advice given here. All this is about is getting some experience under your belt. Besides that, you didn't pay much over melt. If you get anything that remotely looks like a Franklin half, you didn't lose much and the seller isn't retiring any earlier. This is a cheap learning experience.

 

Alan, you do realize that the Jefferson is the Type I mint mark, don't you?

 

Yes, Mike, I do believe it is a Type 1 MM, which for Alan's sake is worth considerably more

 

Cannyn, the Type II mintmark is the one that commands the premium. Fortunately on the nickel the spread isn't too big between the two