1960 D/D "Error" and "Guess The Grade" by SEGS

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by torontokuba, Mar 3, 2014.

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Guess the SEGS grade

  1. AU-55

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%

  2. AU-58

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%

  3. MS-60

    2 vote(s)
    10.0%

  4. MS-62

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%

  5. MS-64

    7 vote(s)
    35.0%

  6. MS-66

    4 vote(s)
    20.0%

  7. Details

    4 vote(s)
    20.0%
Page 3 of 3
  1. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    I think I've noticed a pattern where a few members thinks everything is harshly cleaned, even coins graded by NGC and PCGS. I'm just glad they weren't the ones grading my coins.
     
    jwitten, May 31, 2014
    #41 + Quote Reply
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    In a way I kind of did that years ago. There have been and still are many people who ask for my help with their collections, and I give it freely. They ask for my opinion on coins they are thinking of buying, I give it. Never once has anyone ever been unhappy with a coin that I approved of for them. And in the end all of them ended up with very nice collections that they are very proud of.
     
    GDJMSP, May 31, 2014
    #42 + Quote Reply
  4. bkozak33

    bkozak33 Collector

    I learned along time ago, to never follow advice on here about coin grading. You cant accurately grade coins by looking at a picture, and most cant do it first hand.
     
    bkozak33, May 31, 2014
    #43 + Quote Reply
    torontokuba and jwitten like this.
  5. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Doug , did they used to polish dies differently , as I thought they once did it by hand . Which would explain these polish lines . Thoughts . Please blow up the pic to see the lines .
    Image View: Normal | Medium | Large

    [​IMG]
     
    rzage, Aug 17, 2014
    #44 + Quote Reply
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I've never been able to pin down an exact date with my own research, but what I have found out is that the same mechanical method for polishing dies has been used since about the mid 1800's. And the technology for that method had existed for a couple hundred years prior to that. But I do know of a time when dies were not polished, at least not as we think of it. But that goes back to 1400. So, somewhere during that 400 years things changed.

    As to your coin Rusty, those are not die polish lines, but rather die scratches. And given their shape and design, in particular the ones under the horse, it's a pretty safe bet to assume they were caused by a mint worker using a rag to wipe dirt, debris, grease, off the die while it was it in use. And that is what scratched the die. Wiping a coin off with a rag is not the same as polishing it.

    Die polish lines, as we know them, have certain characteristics. They are always straight, they are always parallel, they never criss-cross each other, and they never cross the devices. So if you are looking at a coin and see raised lines on the surface, if those things are not all true then at least some of those lines are not die polish lines.

    But as I have explained many times it is extremely common to have die polish lines, die scratches, and coin scratches, all on the same coin and on top of each other. The mistake that people make is that they just lump them all together and call them all die polish lines - when they are not.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 17, 2014
    #45 + Quote Reply
    rzage likes this.
  7. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Makes sense to me . I got that book from Mine to Mint , now to read it .
     
    rzage, Aug 17, 2014
    #46 + Quote Reply
  8. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    FYI:

    Not an error, a variety
     
    Treashunt, Aug 18, 2014
    #47 + Quote Reply
  9. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    I thought it was an RPM-003 .
     
    rzage, Aug 18, 2014
    #48 + Quote Reply
  10. Pokeplayer101

    Pokeplayer101 Member

    I believe this should grade MS60. It doesn't look like there is enough detail on the reverse for it to be MS64.
     
    Pokeplayer101, Aug 18, 2014
    #49 + Quote Reply
  11. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank


    could be,
    but still a variety
     
    Treashunt, Aug 18, 2014
    #50 + Quote Reply
  12. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Yep! ;)
     
    rzage, Aug 18, 2014
    #51 + Quote Reply
  13. Coinchemistry 2012

    Coinchemistry 2012 Well-Known Member

    I don't think that is a fair statement at all. It is one thing to say that genuine die polish marks (as opposed to cleaning hairlines) are uncommon on the devices, especially on this design, and another all together to say that it can "never" happen. There are few absolutes in numismatics. With that said, the coin could very well be cleaned, but I would want to see it in the hand rather than relying on the images in the OP before I would make that determination.
     
    Coinchemistry 2012, Aug 18, 2014
    #52 + Quote Reply
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Once you understand how dies are polished, it is not only a fair statement, it is an accurate one.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 19, 2014
    #53 + Quote Reply
  15. Coinchemistry 2012

    Coinchemistry 2012 Well-Known Member

    If you had qualified your statement, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but saying never, particularly when your comments could be extrapolated to apply to other designs and series is not accurate.
     
    Coinchemistry 2012, Aug 19, 2014
    #54 + Quote Reply
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You can of course believe whatever you want, but the statement is accurate, even when applied to other designs and series.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 20, 2014
    #55 + Quote Reply
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