1958 Franklin Half Dollar PCGS MS67+ FB CAC sells for $110k at auction

Here is some more conversation on this coin, including Brian Raines saying he owned it as an MS 66.
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Here are some very interesting responses on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/784...9434606&notif_t=group_comment&hc_location=ufi

Transcript for those that aren't on FB:

November 28 at 1:43 AM
This recently sold 1958 Franklin Half, graded PCGS MS67+ FBL brought a jaw-dropping $129,250! This was just at 10X the published PCGS Price Guide value of $13,000 and some $110,000 over the estimate. Described as "the BEST and wildest 1958 Frankie in existence. " I agree!

11 Comments
36Neil Bodana and 35 others

Joshua Ramos You were the owner?! Wow! Congratulations

Peter Lang I wish! Legend Rare Coin Auction sold it to some lucky person.Maybe too Dell Loy Hansen!

Joshua Ramos Peter Lang oh I misread! Haha time for bed!!

Chris Simpson Many conversations have already been had on this coin. A friend owned it in 6 holder and sold it a while back. Then someone, somehow got it into a 7+ holder and the bidding went nuclear for some reason. It's now starting to trickle-down pump the overall toned BS Frankie market which is nice but my buddy was upset to say the least. I pity the buyer new buyer. Not really though because the winner, I'm sure, has FU money to burn and when he can't get close to what he paid when he eventually sells it, he probably wont care..

Joshua Ramos Chris Simpson agreed and yup sucks for the friend... I had a similar situation with a 1921 Morgan I bought in an NGC 64, cracked and sent it to PC, went 65 and I sold it and found the same coin a couple weeks back in a 66 holder... it sucks...

Peter Lang... Many buyers who buy coins like this at high prices (Or not high) never intend to sell them. They enjoy looking at their collection too much. Many end up becoming heirlooms. That's when the selling starts!

John A. Zieman Jr. Sweet coin for sure, but to me, not worth $100,000+. I rather own so many other coins before owning this one. Plus, the color will evolve, so what looks pretty today will be different and maybe not so pretty 5 or 6 or 10 years from now(toners). At least a say 1895 Morgan will be an 1895 Morgan forever and rarity is what it is. Hey one day, color might fall out of fashion and those premiums will disappear. Look at the MS-70/PF-70 craze...

Tony J. Lopez John A. Zieman Jr. Exactly. It was obviously a BSD contest but long term this has the potential to tank since it is missing the intrinsic value of date rarity to sustain it’s value over time. Would love to see a pic of this coin from 25 years ago to compare that toning.

Brian Raines This “was” my coin. I got it back from pcgs in a ms66fbl holder. I did not want to sell it when another dealer asked a price on it. My price wasn’t high enough and he bought it. I came up with a number that I figured would make him go away. He resubmitted it to pcgs and it came back 66+fbl. Then he sold it for modest profit and then it got resubmitted through legend, whereby it came back 67+fbl. I made money on the coin but am not happy with how legend and and another person gets another 1 1/2 points in grade.

Jason Wendt Part of the grading game. Legends and PCGS are in each other’s pockets. At least with NGC their folks can’t be dealers and graders. NGC is a much more honest company in my eyes.
PCGS board of directors can also be coin dealers.. major conflict of interest that hurts everyone.

Joel W Shartzer Yes, one PCGS board member works for heritage auctions. You can figure out the rest.

Chuck Matheny I have seen it multiple times. Even from the early days. I cracked out a sharp MS64 rattler and sent it in to pcgs. It came back bodybagged as cleaned. So 6 months later,Teletrade was offering free grading thru PCGS with a large consignment. They sent it in and it came back as MS 66. That left a sour taste in my mouth. Someone sent it in and it got 64,then I sent it in and its bodybagged. Then a major auction sends it in and its ms 66. Only a 600 dollar difference in the grade I got and the grade the major auction got but wow.

Tony J. Lopez Brian Raines how many X has the value increased by gradeflation?

Brian Raines Too many to mention

Lance Tchor Brian Raines Legend did not get the grade, the consignor got the grade!

Robert Risi So what if down the road it gets into a 68FBL holder? Would the rich pockets shell out 1/2 million bucks for it. Crazy!!

Darren Jewru Bartz Not this coin again which is a 64 at best

Richie Stinchcomb The key to this particular coin is the strike/detail quality! It was struck with fresh new dies. Actually, the reverse is the key as a large percentage of these coins were struck with proof dies on the reverse. The fact is this is a very high quality business strike piece made from proper dies. There are tons of coins that may look better, but they were probably struck from retired proof reverse dies.

Garrett Frisina Richie wow I agree with you.
This coins is every bit of a 67+ with or with out the color. Grading companies aren’t perfect, they are first to admit it. However they have helped and continue to help our industry 10000x over. I wouldn’t have it any other way. We actually may not have an industry if it wasn’t for them. Let’s not forget that TPG came in part from need. That need grew from many (not all but many dishonest dealers - ripping off and Deceiving collectors/investors)

Marwan Alayan That’s a lot of money, everybody practice is their business investments differently, I think it best this is an MS 66 , I’m so sick and tired of people resubmitting coins for a higher grade it truly isn’t fair and I believe it’s very bad business practice

Darren Jewru Bartz Not close to a 66,,, 64


Marwan Alayan Darren Jewru Bartz No no you’re hundred percent right, I just don’t see any detail, I don’t know where the hell they got that price from I wish I had clients like this LOL

Darren Jewru Bartz It is sad and I know what you mean about people sending pieces in 20 times! At least one of our major coin doctors is now sitting behind bars but he was just one

Richie Stinchcomb Marwan Alayan, resubmissions kill the market as well. The grading industry needs a standard, not one that floats all over the board and it becomes a guessing game!

Marwan Alayan Richie Stinchcomb you are spot on accurate, they need to spend a few more seconds looking at the high grade big Coins, it’s obvious they take pictures of them they’re getting paid for it I don’t understand why they can’t spend an extra 10 seconds this is the astronomical error on the part of PCGS,This is a $5000 coin

Marwan Alayan Paul M Stutz It just seems like they have no problem taking the money for your submitted currency, but they’re not spending enough time on each individual coin they need to hire more graders

Paul M Stutz Marwan Alayan Perhaps you are correct my eyesight is bad now so I can not grade even with glasses I miss seeing the details {[ whaa In my 20s 30s Loved getting coins at sweetmeats from people selling dads or uncles collection not knowing what they had? However with my eyesight then I was knowing the quality of what was there by site but good things do not last forever. Now it even hard to see the date on a coin I know well .

Brian Raines I knew when I bought it that it was pretty baggy. I hoped for a 66+fbl though.

Maxwell Gregory Brian Raines how many times did you submit the coin?

Brian Raines Maxwell Gregory ince

Brian Raines
Brian Raines Once, I didn’t have it long enough for a resubmit

 

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I find the Franklin to be a very common coin. And even in high grade and with this toning the price is ridiculous.

 

Those highlighted areas are just the icing on the cake. 67+ CAC what a joke. PfFt

 

SO...What will it sell for next time? Guesses? With a high reserve I bet it won't ever resell. Would have to go for around $800 before I'd be even interested, but even then, I'd need to be very lit to bid on it.

 

What does CAC MEAN

 

https://www.caccoin.com/about-cac/

 

It might be in a 68 holder next time, so there is room for price appreciation.

 

Hadta. Hope he used a coupon

 

I like a beautifully toned coin, for instance, look at the 1895 Proof Morgan for sale at U S Coins...for an honest 175,000 dollars. Which one would you like to own?

 

If I could get one at that price, I would prefer a 1943 copper cent.

 

Of those two???? Neither, but if forced to buy one then the Frankie.





I HATE Morgan dollars, though.

 

Can say i know more about coins then buyer does

 

A ridiculous price for a pretty but overgraded coin. I see it as high end 65. Color bump to 66 maybe and $2500 on eye appeal. Not my thing but this is pretty anyway

 

No mint state Franklin of this era will ever grade a 68...it is impossible...the technology in minting at this time for half dollars simply did not exist...virtually all mint state Franklins have bag marks and this one has MANY.

 

That might be true, but never say never.
In a system where the best coins are ranked (or "market grading"), there may come a time when MS 67+ won't be high enough and the coin will be bumped regardless of the technical grade.

 

I don't think that it will be long if PCGS keeps the same practices that they use. They have already pretty much thrown any true sense of grading right out the window.

 

No they haven't, no matter how many times some of you keep saying it it won't make it true.

 

But they have and this coin is the poster child for it.
If they aren't inflating grades how did this one grade 65 then 66 and magically get called a 67+ CAC.
You can argue that the marks on this coin wouldn't be seen, But that is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. A coin that is as lustrous as a 67 should be, those flaws will jump out like a sore thumb. Look we won't ever agree, I get that.
The longer you stand in this position the more foolish you look.
For crimony sakes use some common sense.

 

You could be right...in a race where some players change horses in the middle of the stream, anything could change, but for now, the rules of grading still dictate the outcome, be it an honest race that is.

 

My bad @baseball21 I think that PCGS/ NGC does a lot of things right, they also do plenty of things that I don't like. Conversations between you and I have been less than fruitful lately, and would rather get along even with our differences. I still don't understand why you agree with them 99% of the time, but, I will accept it.
Please don't let me run you from this forum. It's not my intention.

Phil