1944 slant 1 Wheat cent

I have seen the posts in earlier threads of this cent. I understand that many feel it is not an error, but post mint damage caused by the hook on a shotgun wrapping machine. But now that I have found 3 pics that all have an identical slanted 1, I am having serious doubts. Why are all toned over ? Why do all of them have the same consistency ? And lastly, where are all the 1931's, 21's, 11's, etc that must have been handled in the same way. Where are the damaged reverse coins ?

Seems like a lot of coincidence when during the war years government was cutting every corner it could in manufacturing to run our war machine. Go figure ?

Anyway, here's mine.

 

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I have seen the exact one you have.the one we were referring to had a missing or partially hanging numeral.The one you have I dont really have an explanation for.But I had one like it too.

 

that makes me want to bust open some of the old rolls of wheat pennies I have and look for one of these.

 

I see that I called it a 1944 on the thread title. LOL That's because I have some pics of 1944 with a really funky looking "S". It is looks like the 1946 S over D and is listed with the same FS identification # in the Cherrypickers guide. Should have put it up instead ?
Getting old don't make you smart. LOL

 

wheres the 21's. i found this in a mason jar of cents i got at the auctions. i put it in a tube with the more interesting pieces.

 

What a great find ! Like I was saying, this coin is far more interesting than a regular 1921. Also, it doesn't have a mint mark. Maybe that is one of the effects ?

All I am saying is that the slanted 1 has the consistency of the normal 1. If it was pushed over by another piece of metal, I would expect to see some distortion ? Notice there aren't any other scratches and the toning is even. If it is post mint damage, it must have been well before the metal was cured, wouldn't it ?

All I know, is that I am definitely keeping mine and looking for more. LOL

 

I thought the date was a logotype (4 digit punch) at this time, thus the slanted last digit of date shown in the OP's coin would be impossible.

For that reason, I'll guess the date is post-mint damage (or some type of tooling).

 

The logotype ended with the RPD of Indian Head Cents. The date was on the master hub for the year, and precludes any alternative digit in any year date. It also eliminates any mint produced slant, as the working die would have the digit in the incluse to strike it standing, and any alteration would produce evidence of the original digit and any gouge caused slanted digit. So it is definitively post mint damage.

Doubled dies can cause doubled digits, but that mechanism is well understood and documented, and doesn't alter the shape of the digit.

The "1958/7" overdate cent listed in Breen's has been hghly indicated to be a die gouge rather than an overdate.

Jim

 

If you put it under a microscope at 200x, you would probably see that it has been pushed or scraped out of position. You would also be able to see faint traces of it in the original position as well as a very, very slight bend at the upper left side.

Chris

 

as has been stated so many times before this is the result of the roll crimping machine. the steel finger that rolls over the end of the paper roll hits in the same area on the coin every time. on newer coins you can often see a ring on the coin in this position. Copper is a relatively soft and maleable material and therefor the metal will move out of the way of the steel finger. If you look long enough you will find this for most every date. the very fact that it happens in the same position year after year indicates that it is post mint problem.

Richard

 

Even on the 41 posted in the OP if you look at the 1 you can still see the remains of the bottom of the 1 in its original position and it is clear that the 1 has been pushed over to one side.

And like Desertgem said, beginning with the first Lincolns in 1909 the date was part of the master hub each year, from which ALL the dies for a given year trace back to.

 

I do understand that. What amazes me though is that all the pics of the one I have seen appear to be evenly toned. So the damage must have occurred early in the life of the coin. And the fact the metal was not "bunched up". Copper doesn't slide across the surface. So somehow the metal was rolled back down without a crease on the inside.

I would really like to see someone get an old wrapping machine and duplicate the damage. I think that would really be neat. Something worthy of publication ?

Anyway, it's a lot neater coin than all the normal 1941s I have. LOL

 

Actually it can for short distances, if pushed just right, either by an errant coin counter or by using a tool ( graver) such as engravers use. If you have a pair of magnifying goggles or headpiece, you can try it your self on a scrap wheatie and a
flat head miniature screwdriver. You will leave some scratches of course, as it is an art that must be learned, and it isn't the right tool.

 

This is a 1941, I have one exactly like it and I have seen at least 6 of them at a single dealer at a coin show claiming they were "varieties"....which is not the case. These are post mint damage from counting or rolling machines.

My believe is that in 1941 there was at least one machine somewhere that produced a number of these damaged cents. Everyone that I've seen has been circulated and the brown patina is even over the surface. That implies they were all done at around the same time.

 

my thoughts...if you like it, all is well.

 

If you really feel this way then why are you here? One of the purposes of this forum is to educate, if educating people about the difference between an error and damage doesn't matter then why not just collect coins that are dirty?

Richard

 

That sure makes it interesting. Perhaps that a single defective machine damaged a few thousand or maybe only a few hundred at the same time, or very nearly so. This might make it a "variety" in of itself, if you could get a count or provenance.

I did say in an earlier post that I misidentified the title. I have a couple of 1944 S/d ? that I scanned at the same time and mis-named the file.

No fool like an old one. I do apologize and will try to do better next time. However, don't expect much improvement. LOL

 

Its not just one machine doing the damage, in fact i have several 2009 rolls that show the damage as well. the difference is that no the 2009's it is more obvious because the copper plating gets stripped off and leaves a zinc circle.

Richard

 

interesting?:eating:

 

I would really like to thank everyone who has chatted with me about this. I learned a lot. I did see a pic of this coin listed as a "restrike" by a dealer. My questions were certainly answered and enough info given to certainly educate myself and hopefully a few others.

Thanks again guys.