I don't get why the 1944 P Netherlands Gulden coin demands the dollar figure it does. It's got an acorn privy with a "P" to signify that it was minted in the US during WWII in Philadelphia. However, the mintage figure I see is over 100 million. I also see a note for the 1945 Gulden that "only a small number [was] placed into circulation". But, that note is not specific to the 1944 year. The 1944 year doesn't appear to be that rare given the number of offerings on the 'Bay. Please note, not the Curacao one, but specifically the one made for the Netherlands. Also, for the 1945 year, does that mean that the 25 million plus coins were minted but not officially introduced in its entirety? Were they minted merely to signify the Netherlands' continuity of state - that it's still going strong as a sovereign entity despite the German's stronghold in the motherland? Did they melt the majority of the coins, thereby making the 1945 year rare? Does the melting also apply to 1944? And, why the acorn? Why not a different design? Is it a staple ingredient/food of the Netherlands? I think that I read somewhere that the acorn was historic in nature due to its appearance on a Dutch coat of arms. But nothing is conclusive from what I can tell. Finally, I get the whole supply and demand of the market... what I'm getting at is the granular analysis of the 1944 Netherland Gulden's supply to cause such a price hike. Thanks in advance!
Does anyone know? Maybe this should be in the World Coins forum lol. Can a mod please move this over there if it needs to be there?
You know probably better than any coin talk member living in the US. I've run into a lot of questions too about world coins. Unfortunately info is quite scarce online. You often only find remotely similar discussions in chat rooms like this but nothing official. Maybe the info is in other languages
The NGC (Krause) price guide value is probably just "made up" but buyers have used it as its "real" market value because they believe in error that it represents a real price or have nothing else to use. The same applies to price guides published outside the United States, especially if they are "updated" only annually. I make these comments not knowing anything about this specific coin but the accuracy of price guides generally. Their invented (as in completely made up and fictional) prices will on occasion create a perception of value which has little or nothing to do with a coin's actual scarcity and possibly its numismatic merits.
Thanks, that's very interesting. So, the small number that was introduced into circulation also applies to the 1944 year. My confusion, however, is with the two Krause entries for the 1944 entries (two different numbers ending in ".1" and ".2") of seemingly the same exact coin, but with two different mintages. I do wonder if there's a US Mint historian I could ask, or maybe the US Mint has an archived documentation on file regarding this. I'll have to ask them.
As for the acorn, I guess the idea was to "mimic" the mintmaster sign used on most Dutch coins. So the acorn was picked for the European Netherlands while the palm tree was used for the overseas territories. Maybe a tulip would have made more sense for the former ... Also note that there are actually two different 1944 designs - in one case there is no text below the Queen's neck, the other type (also made in '45) has the "EN" of "Nederlanden" underneath the neck. Christian
Well, I found some info, the US Mint created 105,125,000 Guldens for the Netherlands. And, under the US's Lend-Lease Act, we provided 17,742,065.74 ounces of silver to the Netherlands. With the ASW of the 1944 Gulden equaling 0.2315 troy oz, that means that the Netherlands had to eventually pay back 76,639,593 Guldens to the US for fiscal year 1944. If the US kept the silver in stock at the Mint in lieu of delivery to Nazi-occupied Netherlands (I would think this would be obvious...), and the silver had to be paid back per US law and international agreement, then that means that only about 23,360,407 Guldens may not have been melted. In other words, the US may have over-produced the number of silver coins for various countries due to the law. But, that 23 million figure is still large, and this is speculation based on data. So, the actual number of coins issued is largely inconclusive, at least from the bits I read. And, apparently, the acorn means that there is no mint master from the Netherlands, if I'm reading that correctly in the link below: http://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/2177-Netherlands/year/1944
I only see one 1944 design for the 1 Gulden acorn privy coin. I see that there's a different design for the previous years in, say, the 1930's with a similar design. But, I'm wondering if the NGC/KM entry of the 1944 acorn privy in the link below is by accident, since it appears to have a different design with the Queen's neck and "EN" below, as you mention. https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/netherlands-gulden-km-1611-1922-1944-cuid-27108-duid-80247
Image from the "Muntalmanak" 2015 catalog. This is a quick cellphone photo of a somewhat glossy paper, but the difference is pretty obvious, I think ... Christian
The mintage of 105 million includes both varieties for 1944. One is scarcer than the other, so this is why the price difference
But both designs have the acorn. I'm guessing that the second Krause listing is the scarcer variety, given the price tag. The first one is also expensive relative to Guldens of other years. So, there are two acorn varieties for 1944, and they're both expensive with a huge mintage. Unless I'm understanding wrong.
Yes, all the "P/acorn" type coins are relatively expensive. Here is a hi-res (scanner) image of the three varieties. The FDC (fleur de coin) grade basically means mint state. The ones made before the German occupation are between €15 and €80 for that grade. Now the 1944P coins with the text that does not reach the neck (Schulman 1055) is €135, again in FDC and according to that catalog; the one with the inscription almost going to the bottom (1944P, Sch. 1055a) is €750. The really pricy one is Sch. 1056, dated 1945 - with €3,500 for the coin in FDC. The catalog explains that, in the case of the US made pieces, the "muntmeesterteken" is not really a mintmaster mark (see post above). It does not say why the acorn was picked. From what I know, the acorn on coins is more common in Norway, also in Germany ... Christian
