1943-s copper penny

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Rats, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

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  3. Rats

    Rats New Member

    Not sure if it makes a difference, but the rim is thinner on one part of the coin. Just want to address all potential problems before I spend the time and money on authentication.
  4. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

  5. Rats

    Rats New Member

    Could be. After looking at more that I know are genuine, it looks like the position of the lettering seems to vary. I don’t know much about it besides what I’ve found online though. Here’s a few more for reference. 05C01F5E-AD34-4AA4-8029-B6D306DFFFFD.jpeg
  6. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    If it is authenticated as genuine, I wouldn't worry about the expense. If there is a coin show anywhere within a few hours drive, it would be worth your time to have many eyes look at it.
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  7. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody who doesn’t know anything...

    This looks very promising. I have some contacts at NGC who have worked with 1943 coppers before. PM me and I will see what I can do.

    It’s a pretty useless endeavor. 1943 copper cents could be struck from any die pair, and it would be no protection from plated cents.

    Just click on the thumbnails
  8. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody who doesn’t know anything...

    Especially a big show with PCGS and/or NGC present
  9. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody who doesn’t know anything...

    Here’s my AliExpress 1943. Nore the die chip on the wheat stalk next to U in UNITED

    AD5442D6-21D1-43E8-99B3-24E0887E5E90.jpeg 537CFB3B-E78A-4E1D-B3BA-966F3CF928E4.jpeg
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  10. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    The spread on the date looks good but this coin doesn't match mint mark placement of the known examples I have mapped. Speaking of the mint mark - the one on the OP's coin, to me, looks more like MMS-002 which was last used in 1941 instead of MMS-005 which was used in 1943 and 1944.
    1943 S Copper 1.JPG 1943 S Copper 2.JPG 1943 S Copper 3.JPG
  11. Rats

    Rats New Member

    Thanks for the info! I may just hold onto it.
  12. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Rats, how do you think this got into grandma's jar of coins now that it appears to be fake? It has a questionable MM and looks like other examples from aliexpress...
  13. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    The point made that there's no way to determine which die pair struck this coin,
    as the leftover copper planchets could have been struck by different dies.
    However, while another 43 copper may turn up one day, I have read too many posts about this coin being found in a jar of coins too many times to ever think it's not fake. There are 1 million fakes for every real one, and it's probably the most looked for Lincoln coin and one hasn't turned off in a very long time. I tried to research when the last genuine 43 copper was discovered, and IDK when that was, but it wasn't recently. If anyone knows when the last 43 copper was discovered, I would be interested in that information. TY
  14. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    Still the mint mark would be MMS-005 and I could be wrong but to me the mint mark on the OP coin looks like MMS-002.
  15. COCollector

    COCollector Well-Known Member

  16. Legomaster1

    Legomaster1 Cointalk Patron

    I think Rats' coin is a steel 1943 S. There is a steel colour to it on the background which isn't present on the 1949 cent in the picture he posted
    Randy Abercrombie and Heavymetal like this.
  17. mithril21

    mithril21 Member

    It’s not steel. He said it doesn’t stick to a magnet and he provided a picture showing the coin weighs 3.1 grams which is spot on for a copper cent. Steel cents weigh 2.70 grams.
  18. mithril21

    mithril21 Member

    Walter Breen listed these four basic tests a genuine 1943 copper cent must pass:
    1. The coin must be non-magnetic.
    2. The coin must have the same standard weight of 3.11 grams for copper cents.
    3. The coin must have the same long tailed 3 as the steel cent.
    4. The coin must have an exceptionally sharp strike, especially around the rim. This is because the mint increased die pressures to account for the harder steel material. The softer copper cents were struck with the same higher die pressure used for the steel cents.
    This coin clearly passes the first 3 tests. I’m not sure it passes the fourth test, although it is noteworthy that Rats mentioned the rim is thinner on part of the coin.
  19. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Old Walter also didn’t get the experience the Chinese gift that keeps on giving. Take as you will.
    markr, Kentucky and Legomaster1 like this.
  20. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster It seemed like a good idea at the time.

    But Walter Breen didn't have to deal with Alibaba and Chinese fakes. I can't say for certain if you have something or not, but the odds are significantly against you. One thing you could do is research Alibaba and see if your coin is a die match. Short of that, you'll need to pony up your $50+ and ship it off to a top tier TPG. I really hope you have something, but the realist in me is doubtful
    Legomaster1 likes this.
  21. mithril21

    mithril21 Member

    That may not be enough nowadays to authenticate the coin because of the newer Chinese counterfeits, but it must still pass those same four tests.

    My question is, does it pass the fourth test? Does the sharpness of the strike due to the higher die pressure match that of known genuine copies? If it does not, then you can conclude it is not genuine. If it does, then you still can’t conclude anything without more testing.
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