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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Insider, post: 3222654, member: 24314&quot;]Well here goes again...but first, hopefully, all of you will read this discussion:</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/guess-the-assigned-grade-1924-standing-liberty-quarter-bonus.219167/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/guess-the-assigned-grade-1924-standing-liberty-quarter-bonus.219167/">Guess the Assigned Grade--1924 Standing Liberty Quarter--Bonus!!!</a></p><p><br /></p><p>There are several comments in it that need explaing but that&#039;s for another time.&nbsp; For now, this comment by a member is not true:&nbsp; &quot;Yes, that has always been my point because you, nor me, nor <span style="color: #ff0000">anybody else</span>, can tell the difference between wear caused by roll friction, album friction, or any kind of friction, because there is no difference. Wear is wear ! It all looks exactly the same because it is all exactly same.&quot; </p><p><br /></p><p>I claim to be able to tell the difference because different causes of luster loss on a coin&#039;s high points LOOK DIFFERENT using fluorescent light with a stereomicroscope set at 7X.&nbsp;&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>TypeCoin971793, posted: &quot;So every single BU Morgan with bag friction (which is <b><i>most of them</i></b>) [<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie11" alt=":rolleyes:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> T<span style="color: #660066">his is nonsense and you should know better.&nbsp; I see hundreds of Morgan dollars on a daily average in full MS without any loss of luster on their high points</span>] is an overgraded AU? Even though they never circulated? If not, then you are the one operating at a double standard.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>John Skelton, posted:&nbsp; &quot;And so it goes.&nbsp; Another dispute over the grade of a coin.&nbsp; Wouldn&#039;t it be nice if we had some verifiable measures of such things as wear, reflectivity, and number and type of dings to allow us to get an idea of the condition of the coin?&quot;&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>We do, unfortunately, it is was not followed by market makers when it came out and it is not followed now.</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp; </p><p>TypeCoin971793, posted:&nbsp; &quot;It’s worth it if it grades MS-65 or higher, like I originally thought it would. I don’t understand your confusion. But another point of this thread is to show that the TPGs are inconsistent. A 63 should remain a 63, right? Nope!&quot;&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>Nope.&nbsp; As long as coins are not graded strictly by the &quot;old&quot; definition of Uncirculated the AU/MS line will not exist.&nbsp; Additionally, as long as value enters the picture, and eye appeal reigns, the MS levels will also be blurred.&nbsp; Beautiful color hides a lot of flaws.</p><p><br /></p><p>I&#039;m also confused.&nbsp; Why would someone think a coin graded MS-63 would jump to a 65 (unless decades of gradeflation took place?).&nbsp; And please don&#039;t bother me with the many examples of &quot;special&quot; coins once graded XF that are now in MS slabs or the AU&#039;s that have become MS over the years.&nbsp; That is a different case than your coin.&nbsp;&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>TypeCoin971793, posted:&nbsp; &quot;As I have said before, I give them a 95% accuracy by my standards (which I learned from expert dealers, forums, and even the TPGs), even accounting for subjectivity (+/- a point). That’s an A+ by most merit systems. My only argument is that because of the 5% they should not be blindly trusted (though I will add that you could pretty much put blind trust in the grade for moderns and Morgans). Arguing that they should be blindly trusted <i>for every single coin</i> like baseball says is folly.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;I am a staunch technical grader and always will be. The number (and/or designation) determines the state of preservation, and the market determines the value. That is how I will always think it should be.&quot; </p><p><br /></p><p>AMEN!&nbsp; That woud cure 95% of the grading problem; however, we are dreaming.&nbsp; It will never happen in our lifetime!&nbsp; Additionally, I should not need to post the fact that all the TPGS overgrade, undergrade, and correctly grade by <span style="color: #ff0000">your standards and mine</span> and EVEN by their own standards when an error is made.</p><p><br /></p><p>TypeCoin971793, posted: &quot;Luster and the lack of contact marks in the prime focal areas both technical aspects that contribute to both the grade and eye appeal. I am perfectly okay with an MS-65 coin with blazing MS-67 luster getting an MS-66. In my opinion, luster is the single most important aspect when it comes to a coin’s grade.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>The presence/absence of toning, however, should not affect the grade unless it is clear that the surfaces have been messed with.&quot;&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie11" alt=":rolleyes:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> It is called eye-appeal.&nbsp; That has become the whole crystal ball supported by, luster, strike, and marks.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>Pickin and Grinin, posted:&nbsp; &quot;I grade with consistency not with fluctuation.&nbsp; There&#039;s no doubt they are the Kings of Market grading. Grade a coin conservative one day, and liberal the next. In essence <b><i>they really don&#039;t grade the coin.</i></b>&nbsp; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie12" alt="o_O" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie5" alt=":confused:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> &quot;<span style="color: #660066">It&#039;s how many folks will believe what they say it is.&quot;&nbsp; </span></p><p><br /></p><p>Sounds like grading a coin to me.&nbsp; BTW, a TPGS does not give a moment of thought to how many folks believe in their assigned grade.&nbsp; It is there grade at the time and obviously (see the OP) <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie57" alt=":jawdrop:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie10" alt=":oops:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> it is subject to change.&nbsp; &nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>heavycam.monstervam, asked: &quot;Or does the TPG just know how to grade better than all of us CT forumites?&quot;&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>Perhaps they have the coin in hand and perhaps they have a company standard and perhaps the guys in the high paying job know a little more than many collectors/dealers.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>heavycam.monstervam, posted: &quot;I&#039;ll go right up the gut and say vf35.&quot;&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>This is not the 1950&#039;s or 1960&#039;s.&nbsp; Calling that 1921-S dollar VF ANYTHING <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie98" alt=":wacky:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />prevents you from taking the Intermediate Grading Course yet!&nbsp; The amount of detail remaining is closer to an AU.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>Pickin and Grinin, posted:&nbsp; &quot;I am sure that I would be more consistent than what you portray them to be.&quot;&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>We all think that.&nbsp; You, me, and every poster here would be shocked by our actual inconsistency.&nbsp; That&#039;s why there is more than one grader on a coin and even with several graders and QC, MANY coins are graded incorrectly by even standard company policy.</p><p><br /></p><p>I have much more to post but that&#039;s it for now.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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