"1936" Edward VIII Great Britain Fantasy Silver Proof ID Please!

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by iPen, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    I've been trying to find the specific KM # and spec info (e.g. purity) on this proof strike coin that I recently acquired. It's a silver coin that measures 22mm, which is a Sovereign size.

    I checked Krause's Unusual World Coins 6th Edition catalog, and all I find is the gold issue (X #M6; 2nd image below). I do see that there's a Duke and Duchess of Windsor version in silver (X #M16a; 2nd image below), but that's obviously not the same coin though I used the weight info to confirm that it's a silver coin (4.4g for Duke/Duchess coin vs. 4.46g for my coin). It's also the same design type as the much larger silver crown version (X #M5b; last image below).

    So I believe this may be a 1984 Richard Lobel series coin, with a purity of 0.9167 and perhaps even the same mintage of 500. The catalog number may be of similar format as the aforementioned coins (e.g. X #M6a if only gold and silver coins were struck, X #M6b if four different metals were used, etc.).

    Does anyone have further info on this coin, or can confirm my thoughts in the previous paragraph? Maybe it shows up on a later catalog edition, or somewhere else altogether.

    Thanks in advance!

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  3. Stork

    Stork I deliver Supporter

    Don't know much about these, and this one is in a slab so I can't weigh it for you. The date covered up by the coin is 1946.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

  5. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Nice coin, that's the one I originally wanted! But, the one I have is the much smaller 22mm sovereign version. The crown version that you have is much larger. I think around 38mm.
     
  6. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    Krause isn't the place to find reliable information on this issue. I will look in my copy of Giordano's Portraits of a Prince, which gives mintages (usually) and dates of manufacture for basically every Edward VIII medal, coin, token, etc. I'm at work right now, so it will have to wait until I get home. Off the top of my head, I'd guess what you posted is a modern (1986 or later) Coincraft creation, with a mintage possibly so great that it was not kept track of.

    [​IMG]


    =======================================

    The older issues (from the 1950s) have much higher relief, and are full crown size (38-39 mm). Below is my example of the original proof in silver that Geoffrey Hearn created in the 1950s (X-M2A in Krause - mintage of 100 pieces).

    [​IMG]

    The one posted by @Stork , despite the 1946 date on the label, was not minted in the 1940s. That piece is an example of the prooflike restrike of the silver proof. It is mis-attributed as X-M2A by ANACS, but it is actually X-M2B, and has a mintage of 1,000 pieces. My example of that issue is also below (also improperly attributed by NGC). The TPGs have a REALLY hard time getting these fantasy issues attributed correctly.

    [​IMG]

    The prooflike restrike can be differentiated from the original proofs via many characteristics, the most obvious is the "broken" numbering in the date. The rim is also much sharper on the original proofs, and the detail in the horse is deeper and more complete on the originals.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Thanks for that. This is the kind of info that is really hard or damn near impossible to find when you are actually looking for it :)
     
  8. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    You're welcome. The problem is that there is a LOT of misinformation out there. Krause kind of throws stuff together without knowing the whole story sometimes. And, then the TPGs misattribute pieces and people start buying something they think is one thing, but it's something else all together.

    The Giordano book is one of the most specialistic numismatic books around, but it's helpful if you need to know something in that particular niche.
     
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  9. Stork

    Stork I deliver Supporter

    @brg5658 Thanks! This was one of those impulsive buys (without a lot of research) and learning more about them is EXTREMELY helpful.

    Krause is so relied upon, yet so not perfect. (The 2015 edition of the Standard Catalog ended up missing most of the 1950s-1980s of Japan IIRC).

    Looks like I need to go book shopping again...
     
  10. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    Hi Cathy, (@Stork ): You didn't do badly in your purchase. There are only 1,000 of the PL Restrikes around, and the high relief of them is far superior to the later very flat issues. You got a very nice fantasy crown, great design, high quality, and very nicely preserved (PF67!). :cool:
     
  11. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Thanks for that info - it'll help me to ID these coins, as I collect these, too, obviously. :) Anyway, I believe that the one I have is a proof strike version, given the bold date example. So, does that make mine a Geoffrey Hearn one? And, mine's much smaller at 22mm - did you happen to find that in that neat book of yours?
     
  12. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    I looked up the information for yours. It is not a proof and your date is bold but not an original Hearn high relief item. Hearn did not strike any 22mm pieces in the 1950s, those are all 1980s and later pieces. Your item is described below in Giordano, in the FM (fantasy medal) section.

    -------------------------------
    FM42b, Ar (silver), 22mm. (p. 592, Giordano)
    Struck in 1984 by Coincraft (Richard Lobel)

    Obverse: Bareheaded effigy left, Edward VIII
    Reverse: St. George left on horseback, slaying dragon
    Edge: Milled

    Rarity given as "N" (normal = 1000 to 2500 pieces struck).

    Value given as $10-$25
     
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  13. Stork

    Stork I deliver Supporter

    Hi @brg5658 -- I didn't realized your book had values. Can you give me a ballpark on the one I posted? Oddly enough I just ran across one (at Atlas http://atlasnumismatics.com/1038493/ ) after seeing the ANACS one for the first time.

    The Atlas one looks appropriately attributed, I think going by what you wrote above. Gradewise there must be a huge market difference between ANACS and PCGS :rolleyes:. Mine was substantially less we'll just say. Still shouldn't have bought it as an unknown...but oh well.

    Thanks for all the info!
     
  14. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    That Atlas price is just hilariously stupid. They are worth about $150-200 in NGC or PCGS 66/67, and around $120-150 in 65. It seems Atlas is hoping for ignorance to come along with no regard to money. I believe the Giordano book lists them at $50-100 for the prooflike restrike.

    For the record, Atlas also has some INA Retro fantasies of George III (minted in 2007) listed for $349 that you can buy raw for less than $20. Lol
     
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