1922-P Peace Dollar 2nd Die Variety???? (Not High Relief.. but something, as seen in Coinweek)

Hi CoinTalk!

Haven't been here in a while. But I saw this recent article in CoinWeek regarding a possible 2nd early die for 1922-P in low mintages that's apparently rare:

http://www.coinweek.com/featured-ne...iscovery-pieces-sold-stacks-bowers-galleries/

"The final two coins, both graded MS-67 by PCGS, are from the initial large-scale trial run from dies prepared with the new low relief hubs for 1922. At least hundreds of thousands of these coins were struck before these samples were sent to the mint director for his examination and approval. Approval was given, and on February 14th, 1922 direction was given for the trial coins to be circulated. The hubs in use at Philadelphia were changed, however, and early hub style coins are much rarer than those of the second hub style. This gives collectors a new piece to search for, and will likely result in a change to the Guide Book listings for the 1922 Peace dollar to reflect the difference between these dies. The easiest way to determine the difference is in the connection of the olive branch on the reverse to the eagle’s talon. The early hub style coins have the branch disconnected, while on the the later style it is connected. As far as we are aware, this is the first public offering of such pieces with proper identification and description. Since the coins from the trial were circulated, the two fabulous Superb Gem specimens in our present sale are quite possibly the finest known survivors, and adding their provenance to Mint Director Baker himself makes their offering historic."

Is this 1922-P Peace Dollar what the article is talking about? With the so-called "Early Die Hubs"?

http://www.pcgs.com/News/pcgs-certifies-rare-transitional-peace-dollars

Pic #1: Reverse
Pic #2: Obverse
Pic #3: Close up image of the gap between the stem and eagle's talon (disconnected)

Pic #4: Close up image of no gap between the stem and eagle's talon (connected) - i.e. a regular 1922-P Peace Dollar like every other one I've seen/come across....

Thoughts/Advice? Anyone else have one of these? Is this going to be the next major die variety for the 1922-P?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. - Long shot, but any chance this is a Satin Finish Low Relief (or, even less likely, a Matte Proof because it doesn't look Matte)? I've never quite learnt the difference between distinguishing Satin Finish and Business Strike. Only asking because the rim is thinner than most 1922-P's, and more importantly, the letters are much more raised than my graded 1922-P MS64/MS65 Peace Dollars.

 

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Yet another type to etch into my brain. Pretty neat.

 

You have a run-of-the-mill 1922 Peace dollar. For whatever reason, I can't see the first two pictures, but the third is from the "B1" reverse hub, which was used in the early part of 1922, and the fourth is from the "B2" reverse hub, used for through 1935. For 1922, while neither reverse is rare, the B2 is the more common reverse, probably by a ratio of 3:1.

Here's a link to more detail about the Peace dollar hub types:

http://www.vamworld.com/Peace+VAM+Attribution+101

 

From the verbiage stated, it would appear to be the newly listed variety.

I wish they had included pictures of the diagnostic branch

 

Thanks for the VAM advice... still can't find the specific VAM (if there is one designated), but from the article it seems that the early die strikes "B1" were minted in the few to several hundred of thousands (x00,000) and the later "B2" were minted 50,000,000+ ---- so I'm wondering where you got the ratio of 3:1?

If you can't see the first/second pics... idk what this is. The letters are raised a bit (both obverse and reverse), but definitely enough to be noticeable, higher compared to my 2x MS65 PCGS 1922-P.

 

anyone here know anything about 1922 DDO

 

P, D, and/or S? I've never heard of it... (Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/19...ief-but-something-as-seen-in-coinweek.263971/)

 

Chances are you have strike doubling (also known as machine doubling). There are many 1922 Peace dollars that show this on the obverse. There are a few doubled obverses for 1922, but they are not very strong. Take a look at this page:

http://www.vamworld.com/1922-P+VAM-2+Machine+Doubling

 

I have DDO and it is certified as such. Its a 1922 P. OLD ANACS small holder. Never found anyone who could elaborate on it. Not even grandpa when I asked the question 8 years ago. He merely said it exists and I could be well bloody sure of it. Just thought I would ask the experts here.

 

here is a pic not good for anything but to admire the holder

 

Could be any number of the known DDOs for 1922. Look at the listings of 1922 varieties on VAMWorld that have doubled obverses and see if you can find a match. Differences between varieties can be extremely subtle. You will most likely see the doubling on your coin on the designer's initials, TRVST, and/or the date.

 

Can someone weigh in on my original question? Should I send it into PGCS?

And can someone look at pics #1 and #2 and look at the obverse and reverse "height"/depth of the letters and details and tell me if I'm hallucinating or not?

Also, is there a easy way to determine a satin finish coin in general? I know it's somewhere in between a full proof and a business strike MS.

Sorry. I'm a noob. Apologies in advance if this is obvious to experienced collectors. But the article is less than a year old...

 

I think that the obv. looks like high relief but after magnifying. It seems to have some sort of md, which would add depth. It would be great to read some more answers.

 

Not worth sending, sorry.

 

Not there on any of those. Only GD knows but for some reason he wouldn't tell then. Now I am sure his memory has failed him. Now with all these rare varieties being found I want to make sure its not rare.

I will try to take close up pics and see if the experts can help

 

Whoops. Sorry I sent it in already (a few days ago before checking this forum). Darn. I probably wasted some money. I should've waited a few days. Thanks for your honesty and advice though.

 

Do you have a silver dollar dealer anywhere near you? Or just send it into PCGS for evaluation (and possibly crossover or reholder) and they'll definitely be able to tell you... It's it's ANACS MS63 it might be worth it.

Although if I recall correctly, PCGS doesn't allow you to send varieties that are not currently in their database. I don't think the 1922-P is in their database... yet. I'd definitely hold on to it as more and more varieties are being discovered every year.

Good luck!

 

It has nothing to do with varieties being discovered; there are hundreds of them, including those that are and have long been known, that PCGS does not attribute. Holding onto it with the hopes PCGS will one day slab the variety would be, IMHO, an exercise in futility; even if they did attribute this particular variety/VAM, the cost vs. rewards upside just isn't likely to be there.

As for your coin, perhaps learning the opinion of the VariSlab fellow would have been a smarter and much cheaper route than sending to PCGS. Oh, wait... that's right. I almost forgot.

 

Haha... wait who's the "VariSlab fellow"?

 

That would be me. (Variety Slabbing Service / VSS / varslab.com)