1917 Quarter

Yeah, I know. But then yo uwent on to say that you couldn't see any more wear on the OP's coin than the coin you pictured. I was merely discussing that from that point on.

 

I can only assume that you are basing your question on the assumption that the TPG graded the coins you posted correctly. While I think that both of the coins you posted are overgraded even using the TPG standards.

But I never said that I think the OP's coin was only 1 level lower in grade than the first coin you posted. You made that assumption because I said that I thought the OP's coin was in better condition than the 2nd coin you posted.

What's confusing you is the different standards, you are trying to compare the 3 coins based on 2 different standards - that will never work. When I get home, I will grade the 2 coins you posted using ANA standards - then maybe the comparison will make sense to you. I will also list the grading standards for XF40, VF30 for both the ANA and the TPG's. That should allow you to see the vast differences between the two.

Oh, I forgot. When a grading guide says the right wing, it means the eagle's right wing.

 

OK, the first coin you posted rlm - using ANA standards that coin would grade as VF20. Here are the standards -

VF20-
obverse -
Right leg is worn nearly flat in central parts. Wear spots show on the head, breast, shield and foot. Beads on outer shield are visible, but those next to body are weak. Inner circle of shield is nearly complete on well struck coins.

reverse - Entire eagle is lightly worn but most major details are visible. Breast and edge of right wing are worn flat. Top tail feathers are complete.

Now if you look at the coin carefully, using those guidlines - that sounds pretty much like a perfect description. The one thing is the top tail feathers line - they are not complete on this coin, but you can see them and the coin is obviously better than the next lowest grade description. So VF20 it is.

And before you ask the question, the following are the standards for VF30. And you and anybody else who reads this will plainly see that this coin does not measure up to these standards.

VF30 -
obverse - Wear spots show on breast, shield and leg. Right leg is rounded but worn from above knee to ankle. Gown line crossing the thigh is partially visible. Nearly half of mail covering breast can be seen. Circle around inner shield is complete on well struck coins.

reverse - Breast and leg are worn but clearly separated with some feathers visible between them. Feather ends and folds are visible in the right wing.

 

Now for the second coin you posted, it clearly does not meet the standards for F12.

F12 standards -
obverse - Gown details are worn but show clearly across body. Right leg is nearly flat and toe is worn. Breast is worn but some mail is visible. Date may show some weakness at top. Rim is full. Outer edge of shield is nearly complete.

reverse - Breast is worn almost smooth. Half of the wing feathers are visible although well worn in spots. The rim is full.

The next lowest grade with a description in the ANA book is VG8, following are the standards.

VG8 -
obverse - Entire design is weak, and most details in gown are worn smooth. All letters and date are clear but tops of numerals may be flat. Rim is complete. Drapery across breast is partially outlined.

reverse - About one third of the feathers are visible, and large feathers at the end of wings are well separated. Eye is visble. Rim is full and all letters are visible.

You didn't post a pic of the reverse of the second coin. But based on the obverse description, it matches just about perfectly with VG8. I suspect the reverse will match as well.

So there you have it, of the 3 coins posted in this thread the grades are - VG8, VG10 and VF20, based on ANA standards. Not so very far apart in grade after all.

 

Now for the PCGS standards. And this is exactly how it is written.

F12-15
Though Type I and 1925-1930 Type II coins have strong dates in F12-15, the 1917-24 Type II coins may have weakness. The head, breast and shield are slightly blended with the leg worn flat. Only the deeply recessed feathers of the right wing will have detail, as the left wing feathers and body will be worn smooth.


VF20-35 coins will show wear down the entire leg, with the shield, head and central area now missing at least one third of their detail. Friction is now quite evident on the wall around Miss Liberty, but most of the detail is still sharp. The date on the Type II coins from 1917 through 1924 will be worn but still complete. The date on the Type I and 1925-30 Type II coins will be very sharp. About one half of the wing feather detail is present, but the front edge of the right wing and body will be mostly worn flat.

XF40-45
The head, shield, breast and knee will exhibit obvious wear on EF40-45, with flatness in the shield and knee. The reverse will have flatness along the front part of the body. The left wing will have slight friction at the fron part, though most wing feathers will still be sharp.

Now, even using the PCGS grading standards, I think it is obvious that the two coins you posted do not measure up to the standards for the grades assigned. That's why I said I thought they were over-graded. Hopefully, all of this information contained in one thread will make my reasoning more understandable.

 

Yes I did, in post #24. I added it in an edit -

"Oh, I forgot. When a grading guide says the right wing, it means the eagle's right wing."

Sorry, but you are mistaken Frank.