1914 Buffalo Nickel - Rotated Die as a "Variety, Not a Mint Error"?

I received my January submission from NGC today, and one of the coins is a 1914 Buffalo nickel with a noticeable 15 degree die rotation (and a reverse die clash) which I submitted as a "Mint Error". However, it came back in a body bag with the following message: "Variety, not a Mint Error". The only variety that I see listed by either NGC or PCGS is a 1914/3 overdate, but I don't believe that this one is an overdate. Yet, NGC's language suggests that this coin is a variety (perhaps not a recognized variety due to how common the reverse die clashes are on these - but then, what about the die rotation?).

It's a bit difficult to tell right away if the nickel was struck from rotated dies, since the coin isn't placed straight in the holder. But, turning the obverse of the coin clockwise to straighten it will cause the reverse image to turn counter-clockwise. To make doubly sure, by using imaging software, I was able to measure that it is indeed a 15 degree die rotation.

Is the specific rotated die along with a die clash a particular, recognized variety? Or, did NGC overlook measuring the die rotation?

Thanks in advance!





The coin isn't as dark as shown in this last pic:

 

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Sweet, wish it was mine

 

If it was a variety then wouldn’t it note that on the holder?

 

That costs extra.

 

Yeah, I only paid extra for the Mint Error, and not the VarietyPlus, designation.

I'm not even sure that this would have been labeled as a variety had I paid for VarietyPlus.

 

There seem to be 3 categories of varieties with grading services:

1. Obvious (to them at least) and which require no extra notation on the submission form and no extra fee. Examples are capped CC on the 1879 CC dollar, large/small motto on 1864 two cents, etc.

2. Not so obvious and which require a request for attribution on the submission form and an extra fee. Examples are FS numbers on a variety (sorry) of issues and VAM numbers on Morgan dollars.

3. Not worth mentioning or not really a variety. Examples are rotated dies, clash marks, adjustment marks, etc.

Cal

 

It was not done in the die production stage, but was in the insertion-tightening stage of the die into the press so I would think it is a mechanical error. It probably is considered a variety if more than 1 was produced, but not a increased value one IMO.
Jim

 

You've been having a LOT of problems with NGC lately...

 

I thought all rotated dies of at least 15 degrees was considered a Mint Error, at least by NGC. But if it's too common, then it's a variety because it may have been struck from the same (rotated) die? This makes it so confusing, especially since there are no major varieties recognized by NGC and PCGS except for the 1913/4 overdate.

 

Yeah I think I'm going to submit this along with my medal for an Appearance Review. I'll ask them to reconsider the rotated die error along with a detailed note, and ask them to make sure that it's oriented straight in the holder the next time around.

 

For what it is worth - assuming OP images were flipped square

 

So the dies were actually screwed in this way? If that's what you're theorizing there have to be quite a few more of these unless they were caught by quality control and discarded.

 

So how is he getting "15 degree?" His coin is rotated 180 degrees.

 

Isn’t the “body bag” a reference to a coin that is not encapsulated at all? They did slab it. Just wondering.

Steve

 

Asking TPGs to attribute errors and varieties is outside their wheelhouse.
CONECA is the expert so why not have them slab it if you just can't live
without placing plastic between you and your coins?

 

If you pay for either Mint Error or VarietyPlus at NGC and the coin doesn't get attributed, then the coin will come in a bag, even if the coin gets slabbed. Maybe it isn't supposed to be a body bag though, since the plastic wrap is not the thick kind. Maybe a light body bag? lol

 

For varieties that are unknown or difficult to ascertain, I can see the benefit of submitting the coins to CONECA or Wexler. But for Mint Errors, which I don't believe CONECA or Wexler deal with, I think that it's well within NGC's purview.

 

I used basic Windows 10 Photo viewer. It has this rotate feature that shows the percent when rotating an image. I should have probably used Photoshop or Gimp 2 to get a more precise rotation. However, I'll have to make sure that the image is square and try the measurement again myself.

 

By the way, can you please let me know what software you used?

 

Rotated dies with that degree of rotation are VERY common in this series. I think there's more rotated dies on the 1913 Var 1 than there is properly aligned dies.