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<p>[QUOTE="Conder101, post: 1252141, member: 66"]OK, no offense but time for corrections to the narrative.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>OK this isn't so much a correction as a bit of history and personal opinion. Most likely the coins are NOT proofs. Originally only two of the coins were described as proofs and the other three were identified as business strikes. Since they were all struck at the same time they would most likely all be one or the other, not a mixture of the two. Over the years the Business strike coins have gradually "become" proofs. As I said originally two were proofs, then three were proofs, then four, and now all five are proofs although the McDermott specimen is described as an impaired proof. In my opinion what they really are are prooflike business strikes from a brand new freshly polished die.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The dies were not made until late November or early December and being the same design that they had been making for years there would be no reason to make "test strikes". There would have been no reason to strike pieces until after Dec 13th when the official word came down from the Treasury to do nothing about nickel production for 1913 until the new design was approved. Once they received that word they knew there would be no 1913 V nickels. By that time ten pairs of dies had already been shipped to San Francisco so they had to wire and order their return. They arrive back on Dec 26th. The question of the last possible time they could have been made is more open to question. I have seen two claims, one that the dies were destroyed on Dec 29th 1912, and another that they were destroyed along with all the 1912 dies in April 1913. I don't know which is correct but I suspect the former.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The statute of limitations had NOT run out in 1920. The seven year statute does not begin until the theft is discovered and an investigation begun. But in 1919 former US Mint Employee Samuel Brown began advertising to buy 1913 V Nickels and later in 1920 at the Chicago Coin Club and later at the ANA Convention he exhibited all five pieces.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>As far as I know the Treasury has never made any official ruling on the status of the 1913 V nickels.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Colonel Green never worked at the Mint. (About the only real work he ever really did was running his small railroad line down in Texas.) He did not buy them or contract with the mint employee to make them. Col Green did not begin collecting until the late 1920's. He was sold the five coins by a coin dealer, I forget the name but I believe it was Nagy.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Actually the case has eight holes. The case still exists and is still owned by the man who bought the set from the Green estate, Eric P Newman. The case has been pictured in Coin World and was on display at the 2003 ANA that brought together all the coins once again. When Eric bought it it had the five V nickels in it and three pattern buffalo nickels including one in bronze. So much for the sixth specimen.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>A 1913 V Nickel was recovered from the accident scene. That coin was sent to Stack's in New York where it was declared to have an altered date. (It is important to know that George Walton was known to have owned an altered date specimen.)</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The Walton's were contacted by Donn Pearlman and requested to bring their altered date piece to the convention to have it as part of the display and history of the 1913 V Nickel. After they arrived and the "altered date" piece was looked at it was thought that it might actually be the missing fifth coin. So very hush hush a panel of expects was brought together along with the four known genuine pieces for an examination. A big deal has been made about how it was a late night midnight meeting, but the reason for that was that the other four coins were out on display at a banquet.</p><p><br /></p><p>Well the Walton coin was determined to be genuine. But the coin had changed hands in the family once or twice over the years, and no one who saw the coin back in 62 in the family was still alive, and the Stack's employee who saw it back then was long gone as well. So no one can prove whether the genuine coin seen at the ANA in 2003 was the same coin declared an altered date in 1962.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>He did that sometimes as a joke. He would display the altered date piece as the genuine and get his jollys out of watching people oh and ah over the "great rarity".</p><p><br /></p><p>James McDemott was another owner who liked to have fun with his coin. He used to carry it as a pocket piece (No holder) and when he would be out at a bar or restaurant and someone asked him about his rare nickel he would pull it out and pass it around! (Remember no holder). Eventually his friends got him to put it in a snaplock 2X2 but that is why today it is an "impaired proof". It grades as a high XF. He also loved loaning the coin to coin shows for display. He wouldn't go to the shows, he would just mail them the coin. In a folded piece of cardboard in a standard envelope.....no insurance.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Conder101, post: 1252141, member: 66"]OK, no offense but time for corrections to the narrative. OK this isn't so much a correction as a bit of history and personal opinion. Most likely the coins are NOT proofs. Originally only two of the coins were described as proofs and the other three were identified as business strikes. Since they were all struck at the same time they would most likely all be one or the other, not a mixture of the two. Over the years the Business strike coins have gradually "become" proofs. As I said originally two were proofs, then three were proofs, then four, and now all five are proofs although the McDermott specimen is described as an impaired proof. In my opinion what they really are are prooflike business strikes from a brand new freshly polished die. The dies were not made until late November or early December and being the same design that they had been making for years there would be no reason to make "test strikes". There would have been no reason to strike pieces until after Dec 13th when the official word came down from the Treasury to do nothing about nickel production for 1913 until the new design was approved. Once they received that word they knew there would be no 1913 V nickels. By that time ten pairs of dies had already been shipped to San Francisco so they had to wire and order their return. They arrive back on Dec 26th. The question of the last possible time they could have been made is more open to question. I have seen two claims, one that the dies were destroyed on Dec 29th 1912, and another that they were destroyed along with all the 1912 dies in April 1913. I don't know which is correct but I suspect the former. The statute of limitations had NOT run out in 1920. The seven year statute does not begin until the theft is discovered and an investigation begun. But in 1919 former US Mint Employee Samuel Brown began advertising to buy 1913 V Nickels and later in 1920 at the Chicago Coin Club and later at the ANA Convention he exhibited all five pieces. As far as I know the Treasury has never made any official ruling on the status of the 1913 V nickels. Colonel Green never worked at the Mint. (About the only real work he ever really did was running his small railroad line down in Texas.) He did not buy them or contract with the mint employee to make them. Col Green did not begin collecting until the late 1920's. He was sold the five coins by a coin dealer, I forget the name but I believe it was Nagy. Actually the case has eight holes. The case still exists and is still owned by the man who bought the set from the Green estate, Eric P Newman. The case has been pictured in Coin World and was on display at the 2003 ANA that brought together all the coins once again. When Eric bought it it had the five V nickels in it and three pattern buffalo nickels including one in bronze. So much for the sixth specimen. A 1913 V Nickel was recovered from the accident scene. That coin was sent to Stack's in New York where it was declared to have an altered date. (It is important to know that George Walton was known to have owned an altered date specimen.) The Walton's were contacted by Donn Pearlman and requested to bring their altered date piece to the convention to have it as part of the display and history of the 1913 V Nickel. After they arrived and the "altered date" piece was looked at it was thought that it might actually be the missing fifth coin. So very hush hush a panel of expects was brought together along with the four known genuine pieces for an examination. A big deal has been made about how it was a late night midnight meeting, but the reason for that was that the other four coins were out on display at a banquet. Well the Walton coin was determined to be genuine. But the coin had changed hands in the family once or twice over the years, and no one who saw the coin back in 62 in the family was still alive, and the Stack's employee who saw it back then was long gone as well. So no one can prove whether the genuine coin seen at the ANA in 2003 was the same coin declared an altered date in 1962. He did that sometimes as a joke. He would display the altered date piece as the genuine and get his jollys out of watching people oh and ah over the "great rarity". James McDemott was another owner who liked to have fun with his coin. He used to carry it as a pocket piece (No holder) and when he would be out at a bar or restaurant and someone asked him about his rare nickel he would pull it out and pass it around! (Remember no holder). Eventually his friends got him to put it in a snaplock 2X2 but that is why today it is an "impaired proof". It grades as a high XF. He also loved loaning the coin to coin shows for display. He wouldn't go to the shows, he would just mail them the coin. In a folded piece of cardboard in a standard envelope.....no insurance.[/QUOTE]
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