1911 D $2.5 Indian Test

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by LostDutchman, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    That is not what I said. The permission part is the important part.
     
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The reason your post was edited was because you copy/pasted the image of the pop table directly from the Heritage web site. You even included the following line in your post -

    *This information is provided and owned by PCGS. Its display and use are subject to the licensed agreement between PCGS and Heritage Auctions.

    Now what do you suppose that means ? It really can't be said any plainer than that now can it ?
    No, that isn't what it means at all. Rather obviously, if you are citing NGC and/or PCGS population numbers - then those numbers came from NGC and PCGS. The problem wasn't what you said but how you said it.

    You copied a dispay image, a table, directly from the Heritage web site. An image that is itself copyrighted, and the information within that image is licensed. In other words Heritage pays PCGS for the right to use and post that information on the Heritage web site. And that license forbids anyone else from copying and displaying that information. Which is what you did. You also violated copyright law by doing so.

    However, there are ways to comply with copyright law and still share the information you are trying to share with others. One way to do that is to post a link to the page that contains the information. Another way to do that would be to post the information, but to present it in a different manner so that it is not completely obvious that you just copy/pasted copyrighted and licensed information.

    You do that kind of like this -

    pop numbers for X coin in MS65
    PCGS - 175
    NGC - 164

    You have said the same thing, you have shared the exact same information - but nobody knows for sure how you came by that information. You could have got it out of a book or a magazine - on from another forum post. You could have gotten it from anywhere.

    Now do you understand ?
     
  4. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    Thanks for going over the law on this. However, I will have to say that you were unusually heavy-handed. As usual many of us do not know where the dividing line is between information that helps people make educated consumer decisions as to value, rarity, etc. and privileged information that is available only if you get giant corporation the OK to share that information with others.

    The original poster focussed on a raw 2 1/2 Indian, the rarest of the group, but still not all that rare looking at population figures. It graded MS 63. Presumably he offered the customer who walked in his store money in line with its graded market value. $5K, $10K, 15K?


    Then there is the issue of fair profits on such a deal. It is between him and his conscience and the customer and their knowledge and rights. Personally, the way I would handle this is give the customer all the relevant information and offer him a dollar figure, say 10% below dealer bid prices. Option 2 is to keep the customer in the dark as to real wholesale market value in order to maximize profits.
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Heavy handed ? How is it being heavy handed to enforce the forum rules ? You were not chastised or given an infraction for rule violations, all I did was edit your post. Then you wanted to know why I did that, and I explained and answered your question.

    As far as knowing where the dividing line is, I thought it was pretty obvious. Especially with this line being right there in plain sight -

    *This information is provided and owned by PCGS. Its display and use are subject to the licensed agreement between PCGS and Heritage Auctions.


    And, as I explained, you could have shared the information. And done it all within the law and the forum rules. And there is no excuse for not doing it that way.
     
  6. mouse

    mouse Active Member

    How much did you pay?
     
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