1909s?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Anarchos, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    I've been asked this quite frequently. I'm not in the conservation business for others. With just a little practice, anyone can do this for themselves. :)

    Try calling Wizard:

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  3. FreakyGarrettC

    FreakyGarrettC Wise young snail

    I think ANACS would be the best choice for this coin! Absolutely amazing find.
     
  4. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    I hate to bring all of the celebration down for a second but I have a basic problem with this coin being a 1909-S VDB. The VDB is very possible, but the S mint mark that you point out in the original post is a tall and slim S mint mark. Therein lies the rub. All of the mint marks for 1909-S and 1909-S VDB were (according to the PCGS guide to Grading and Counterfeit Detection) "struck with the same shape and style mint mark. It is a very square 'box-like' S that contains a notch in the upper serif and a raised 'dot' or lump in the upper loop."

    This mint mark is clearly not boxy and therefore the coin is not a genuine S VDB. Hate to be the killjoy, but I think you need to look at the mint mark again.
     
  5. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    First, the "raised 'dot' or lump in the upper loop" is useless on a coin this worn. It is so small as to be nearly useless on anything less than an XF coin.

    Secondly, I would not call that "S" "tall and slim". Look at my mark up. I have trouble differentiating between #2 and #3, but it sure looks like one or the other to me.
     

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  6. mrh757

    mrh757 Senior Member

    humm?

    Not sure what to think?
     
  7. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    I still have no opinion on whether this is an S-VDB. I cannot tell from the pictures. I'd have to see it in hand with all that corrosion. Hopefully the VC will bring out the MM better.
     
  8. Anarchos

    Anarchos Junior Member

    so the VC is on the way! ill post some pics showing how it came out once i have a chance to treat it. Im hoping the MM will "pop" out too after treatment. we shall see
     
  9. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    I'm looking forward to the pics! Do a little practice before you try it. Be sure to read the instructions and FAQ, also feel free to ask me any questions you may have. In fact, I'm going to look at the current pictures a little closer and determine what you should do.
     
  10. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    The coin has been previously cleaned (perhaps unintentionally) and the upper layer of the moderate verdigris removed. The purplish areas you see are where there was previous corrosion (I've circled a few areas as an example). These areas will likely not change after treatment, but they might become slightly darker. There's not much that can be improved in those areas as the damage has already been done.
     

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  11. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    The areas I've circled in this picture show heavy verdigris that has been partially removed by the cleaning. You will see a slight shinkage of these spots but not total removal because the verdgirs is heavy. Most likely, removal of verdigris in these areas will leave behind pits. The most critical area just below the date where the MM should be should show some improvment. You need to be EXTREMELY careful around here or you might obliterate the MM.....assuming one is there. The green verdigris will probably turn black or very dark after VC treatment. That simply means the ReAcT2™ is doing it's job.
     

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  12. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    Here's the steps you should take....first....be VERY careful, you don't want to chemically damage the coin worse than it already is.

    1) Soak in distilled water for 10 minutes (both sides). This step will remove any water soluble residues that may be on the surface.

    2) Get some high grade acetone from the hardware store or a lab supply store. DO NOT USE FINGER NAIL POLISH REMOVER. The ingredient should be only acetone on the label, no additives. Soak it for one minute in acetone (each side) using a GLASS container. Acetone will melt plastic. Search the forum for acetone if you want to learn more about using it.

    3) Allow the surfaces to fully dry. It should only take a few seconds for the acetone to dry and dehydrate the surface. I used canned air for speeding up this step. A few gentle shots on each side will do the job.

    4) Using glass container, put the coin in and cover it with VC. Allow it to soak for one hour then flip the coin and soak the other side for an hour. Note: You can use your finger to flip it....VERDI-CARE™ is 100% safe on skin.

    5) Remove the coin, pat gently with a coin-safe towel (I like micro fiber towels). Let it dry for 24 hours (both sides) and check the progress. Post a picture here so we can determine what the next step to take is.
     
  13. Anarchos

    Anarchos Junior Member

    My VC came today, so im going to start practicing on common coins. Just to be clear though, i should soak one side of the coin in acetone for 1 minute, then flip and soak the other side for a minute as well...correct? ill post my progress as time permits!
     
  14. kangayou

    kangayou Junior Member

    That would be cool if you took multiple photos along the way , even of your practice coins. That way we could all see how well a newbie to conservation can do if they follow instructions :)
     
  15. Anarchos

    Anarchos Junior Member

    thats a gOOd ideal. im on it.
     
  16. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    Yes, soak BOTH sides for a minute in acetone.
     
  17. Anarchos

    Anarchos Junior Member

    well, finally got around to "conserving" this coin. I think it cleaned it up a little BIT, as the date is easier to see i think, and lincoln is as "shadowy" as he was. Im still hung on the "S" though. I think i see it, but then i think maybe i think im seeing it because i want to see it...But then again i swear i see the outline of it. Ill let you be the judges...
     

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  18. Ltrain

    Ltrain New Member

    Not seeing it... still a 1909 VDB in change, that aint bad.
     
  19. kangayou

    kangayou Junior Member

    I think considering how far gone that coin was, you did a great job conserving it. My bottle of verdi-care has been lost in the mail, so I guess I won't be working on any of my key-dates this weekend :(
     
  20. Phil Ham

    Phil Ham Hamster

    Call me really old school, but I wouldn't clean it. If you do though, I would love to see a pic after the fact. It might change my mind on coin cleaning. Also, I'm not entirely convinced that the coin is a genuine 1909s vdb.
     
  21. WingedLiberty

    WingedLiberty Well-Known Member

    i first i didnt see the S ... now I do ... it's like an optical illusion coin ... no idea if it's genuine S, VDB ... but a very cool find
     
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