1909-VDB Cent Matte Proof?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by SilverStackerKid, Nov 12, 2015.

  1. I know, the rims are not EXACTLY like a proof in all places. But it does LOOK proof. When I have the coin in hand, I will look for die markers. Not a bad buy for 40 dollars. IF proof.

    s-l1600 (6)_opt.jpg s-l1600 (7)_opt.jpg
     
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  3. jester3681

    jester3681 Exonumia Enthusiast

    If it's not in a holder that says "Proof" there's a 99.999% chance it's a standard business strike. Nice tone, though, and $40 is a decent price either way.
     
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  4. What if I put it in a holder and wrote proof on it? :p
     
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  5. DeodatusAlp2002

    DeodatusAlp2002 Lowball glory!

    Hi SilverStackerKid! I know you from the CCF! Anyway, I do not think that is a proof. Is that graffiti on the obverse?
     
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  6. jbuck

    jbuck New Member

    Not a proof.
     
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  7. I guess it is not a proof. Oh well.
     
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  8. DeodatusAlp2002

    DeodatusAlp2002 Lowball glory!

    But is that graffiti? I see the number 35
     
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  9. Just the pattern of toning.
     
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  10. DeodatusAlp2002

    DeodatusAlp2002 Lowball glory!

  11. Markus1959

    Markus1959 Well-Known Member

    Not a proof - but damn nice strike maybe color enhanced from a scope pic -
     
  12. Markus1959

    Markus1959 Well-Known Member

    Almost looks too good!
     
  13. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Pretty coin but I don't feel it's a proof.
     
  14. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    About 200 sellers on EBay are using that method on a regular basis.:blackeye:
     
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  15. Markus1959

    Markus1959 Well-Known Member

  16. robec

    robec Junior Member

    It has a lot of detail, but I'm not seeing any of the diagnostics. It doesn't matter how much it resembles a proof VDB, without the diagnostics it isn't one. With as much detail as this coin is showing it should be very easy to answer you own question.
     
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  17. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    Love it Kid! Looks like old Abe is blowin smoke rings too
     
  18. blu62vette

    blu62vette Member

    Missing the diagnostic die scratch in the pics from what I see.
     
  19. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    For reference, this is what a real MPL looks like. It's inside a slab so a little funny at the rims and I think this is actually a super rare MAD Charmy posted..but the look is what tells.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    My pictures suck, they are from when I was just learning how to take coin photos....but....here's one of the "proof-like" 09VDB's I own. The coin doesn't look odd and cleaned in hand (like I said about the pictures) but you can see the features that can trick - like pretty square rims and frosty fields.

    It is my theory(ies) that one of two things occurred at the mint:

    1) They used the proof dies for business runs but used non-prepared planchets, different coining machines, older worn collars and machine settings. This could have produced EDS business strikes that show the "proof-like" appearance. On the dies, the frosted fields (and other proof features) would wear-out quickly producing "normal" coins from there. The mint probably doubted anyone one would notice since the first few off the line were surely mixed in with normal looking coins. I believe there are so many PL survivors (this topic comes up a lot) because these were the "shinny penny" people coveted back in the day. Between all the hype over the new cent and finding a pretty penny - a good number of these have seemed to survive over the decades.

    2) The mint experimented with sand blasting the dies early on and later decided to stop doing it after just one or two die sets were exhausted. The coins are also just hammered, the mint was probably not too worried about die life at first so they used high striking pressures. Eventually, in an effort to increase the dies lifespan, the mint gradually reduced pressures. This is most evident in the 20's when dies were more scarce.

    1909Lincoln.jpg 1909LincolnREV.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
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  21. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    It was common practice to put Proof dies into Business Strike production with other issues; I have no trouble believing it happened with 1909 Lincolns. I also have no trouble with $40 for this coin. In fact, if I'd seen it first you'd never have bought it, SSK. :)
     
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