1907 Indian Cent—help grading?

I intro’d myself in the intro forum...like I said there, not entirely new to coins or photography but I am new to coin photography and grading. I need your help with this 1907 Indian Head cent...


I know there are definite characteristics to look for, and I know grading is also subjective. Based on its red color, the presence of the 4diamonds in the ribbon and the few blemishes in the fields, I’m torn between MS62, 63 or 64. How do you know what the actual grade should be? It equates to a big difference in the coin’s perceived value. Please help this grading n00b, thanks!

 

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I have exactly the same problem. Technically this is an uncirculated coin...therefore at least MS60...now to get above this, many things are considered (I think), such as excessive bag marks or cuts in focus areas. Yours looks pretty clean, but I don't see much in the way of luster and the fields appear granular. This is characteristic of trying to grade from photos, but I'll take a stab at MS63 and see what the knowledgeable people say. Welcome to CoinTalk.

 

From your images I'm at Au 58 you may want to check this specimen in hand at Indianheadvarities as this date has like over 50 known rpd,mpd,ddo,ddr etc...

 

@RBBDoughty lets call in an expert...

 

What makes you think not an MS grade?

 

Luster, some rubs I believe I see from the images...again coppers aren' my best suit... I may be reading this wrong but from what I see and the brain thinks I'm in the Au/ maybe low MS. And Again maybe it has been cleaned at least dipped.

 

Good discussions, thanks, curious to hear more. Thanks!

 

I looks like slight wear on the feather tip and on the high point on reverse of wreath from the picyure. AU58. I think it has been cleaned as well.

 

But the feathertip would not be a high point...

 

Not trying to be unoriginal.
But my first impression was AU- cleaned.

 

The wear pattern on the surfaces seems to look like an old cleaning.
It looks as if, it has toned over well but I see some wear on the wreath and the ribbon, I say Au55-58.

 

So, correct me if I’m wrong, but once a coin enters circulation it can never be graded above AU. Right? If I pull a pristine, gorgeous, unblemished 2018 Lincoln penny out of my change and it has no flaws, it is still not eligible to be MS. Is that right? If so, how can you tell on old coins, like this Indian or some late 1800s Morgans, if they’ve been circulated or not? I mean, an older coin which may never have been circulated, could have some flaws. How do you know to classify it as circulated or not? I really want to learn.

 

No that would be old school theory....a circulated coin isn't MS. If that the case a roll of cent from the bank would be circulated. Unless you got them directly from the Fed.
In my youth your definition would of helded true......uncirculated meant never saw commerce......a proof wasn't touched by bare hands.
However we now have TPG a scale of 1to 70 and somewhat a play book most go by. Your coin is nice ,but has it been cleaned most probably. Yes ...have most coins its age and old been wiped most probably yes.

 

All "circulated" means is there's circulation wear on the coin. If there's no circulation wear, it's uncirculated, even if it circulated. "Circulated" and "Uncirculated" refer to the state of preservation of the coin.

 

Look at the hair below the B and Y in Liberty....wear.

 

Ok, thanks, that makes more sense. I’ve tried to read different sources on the internet and the info is conflicting. A circulated coin can’t be MS, yes it can, yadda yadda yadda. I figure the only way to know is to ask the people who are doing it. So, I have some bank rolls from the 60s and 80s, pennies I think. Even though they were released for circulation, if they’re attractive enough, they could earn into the MS grades?

 

Thank you, that clears up a lot. I was getting hung up on “literal” terms instead of focusing on them as descriptive terms.

 

True but you'r dealing with someone here who paid his milk money in grade school with a 25 cent silver quarter......for the week not day
Got a war nickel or buffalo nickel a day for penny candy at school..to spend
And at 10 his collection bag for the news paper he delivered was nothing but silver coins, silver certificate and red seal $2& $5's. . Yeah I remember the first episode of the Flintstones.lol

 

Find the thread the guy with the 46 D and 47 D Jefferson nickels....Look at those puppies...like the day they came from the press

 

Will search for it, thanks!