1907 High Relief $20

From me you get the wipe the drool off my screen again award!

 

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I am considering it.

Mega dittos.

 

Just an update. This coin graded MS61 Wire Rim today at NGC.

 

Congratulations! How much did you pay for the raw coin?

 

So, near the higher end of "that range". Niiice!

 

Wow, I "guessed" MS-62. That's scary that I could be in the ballpark !

Isn't this a flat rim, though ? The field comes up and there's a very thing flat border to the edge, right ?

 

Nice! I was actually wondering if the rim issues would keep it from grading. My guess, should it grade, was AU55, maybe + or *. I thought I saw a little rub on the knee... just goes to show, grading from pics is unreliable at best.

 

It's the wire rim. This refers to the tiny little fin at the very edge of the coin... You can see it well at the 1-2 o'clock area of the obverse.

 

Congrats Matt! A beautiful coin.

 

Matt:

Congrats on the 'you suck' award.

Many hatreds coming.

 

You know, I just went back to look at the pics again, and it looks like the eagle is casting a shadow, and the left wing is also casting a shadow on itself. Is the relief on these really *that* high?? (I've not been privileged to see one of these in person.) I'm amazed yet again by this coin.

 

Paul, check out the coins here:

Here's the 1907 Extremely High Relief:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171649222980?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Here's the 1907 High Relief:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1907-ST-GAUDENS-HI-RELIEF-20-NGC-MS-67/201277511241?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=28772&meid=4a771166b0a846f58e23f3992562e46b&pid=100011&rk=1&rkt=10&sd=171573395919

Here's the 1907 Saint, low or normal relief:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1907-20-Sai...240?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c9660a190

You should be able to see the differences in the relief as the coins get less concave.

 

Beautiful coin, but MS61? The sun rim on the reverse is practically gone and there is clearly wear on the high points of the wings. I'd hate to see what an XF45 would look like!

Still, I certainly wouldn't throw it out of my collection!

 

I'm not an expert in grading by any stretch even though (somehow ) I got this one pretty right.

I wonder if the RARITY of a coin makes them give a coin a bit more leeway. For instance, marks or scratches on a 1907 HR is going to be less damaging on a RELATIVE BASIS than the same marks on a 1924 Saint. You have alot more choices to upgrade or find a coin with the same rating without the marks in the 1924, less so with the 1907 HR.

Looking at the obverse and reverse of the 1907: You can see LOTS of little marks...almost looks like a little kid went around deliberately marking them. Now comparing this to my 1924 MS-65, you can clearly see less marks:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/goldfingers-gold-vault.258880/

My Question: Are these BAG marks as a result of gold being very soft ? Because I really don't see the high-point wing wear as being that big a thing, but I see lots more nicks and cuts on the concave fields.

 

As it turns out, this topic comes up with some frequency here.

 

Would love to hear from a professional grader or a long-time expert here with their thoughts........

 

Several knowledgeable people here have discussed the topic of "market grading", which includes assigning a higher grade to a coin based on its rarity or demand.

This thread is a good place to start.

Here's another.

 

I'm a glutton for this design, which I own in Gem state and less.

I've convinced numerous "investors" to search and acquire this design in technically graded AU58 and above. They're informed that a successful acquisition process may require decades of time.

I've personally met with individuals after they found what might be an acceptable available speciman. They are generally informed in advance that even in AU58 it is normally a 5 figure purchase.

I'll show them the various conditions/features to expect at respective grade levels. Unlike the normal relief Double Eagle coin, the design is less likely to have bag marks. The "wire rim" is probably incomplete/damaged in all grades to varying degrees.

The technical standard for minimum "Mint State" is full mint luster, possibly without brilliance. surface lightly marred by bag marks and abbrasions.

Recent market standards for minimum "mint state" condition may be heavy bag marks in all areas, noticeable patch or hairlining throughout, impaired luster, with poor eye appeal.

I personally haven't found a specimen of this coin which I consider to have "poor eye appeal".

All "long term investors" whom I've known have been pleased with the stability performance of this design, and the relative marketability.

I was also a glutton for the 2009 UHR Double Eagle design, paying all interested a 10% premium immediately upon their receipt/delivery of the coin.

JMHO

 

Monaco is selling 1907 St Gauden $20 Rough Rider Hoard coins.. What is that? Is Monaco good?