1905 $2.5 Raw Gold - ex - Jewellery??

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by jmccarty, Jul 4, 2015.

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  1. jmccarty

    jmccarty Active Member

    I'm guessing this is now bullion? One day later this year, I will get it in my oily mitts to take a closer look. I expect it would grade high if it were not bent on 2 sides! Unbelievable what some do to these beautiful old coins!!

    Screenshot 2015-07-04 18.18.52.png Screenshot 2015-07-04 18.18.41.png
     
    jmccarty, Jul 4, 2015
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  3. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

    looks like ex-jewelry. :bigtears:
     
    spirityoda, Jul 4, 2015
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  4. jmccarty

    jmccarty Active Member

    Wonder if it could be re-shaped without damaging it more? Maybe if I could get a hold of the original die? :angelic:
     
    jmccarty, Jul 4, 2015
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  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes.

    No.
     
    GDJMSP, Jul 4, 2015
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  6. jmccarty

    jmccarty Active Member

    What is anyone's opinion graded at if un-mollested?
     
    jmccarty, Jul 4, 2015
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  7. Rheingold

    Rheingold Well-Known Member

    Low AUish if not mishandled...
     
    Rheingold, Jul 4, 2015
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  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Problem coins have no grade, cannot be graded, so it doesn't matter. If you wish to get and keep the coin for your collection, your opinion is the only one that does matter.
     
    GDJMSP, Jul 4, 2015
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  9. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    While that's technically correct (the best kind), every (other?) collector I've heard discuss problem coins will talk about "VF details", "AU details", etc. All the TPGs will put such opinions on slabs. Given that, I'd say that it matters not only to the OP, but most other people in the hobby.

    Prices realized for problem coins confirm this; a cleaned key date will generally go for more in AU-details than in VG-details.

    For this coin in particular, though, it probably doesn't matter. Any dealer I've dealt with would buy it based on melt value, and most would sell it on the same basis, although they might well ask a higher price just in case the right collector spots it.
     
    -jeffB, Jul 4, 2015
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  10. jmccarty

    jmccarty Active Member

    I did buy it, impulsive buy, would no have now that I have. But I can sit on it, another mistake until the bullion value makes it worth selling, or someone wants to turn it back into jewellery.

    Here is the other one as equally embarrassing. Absolute promise, never will buy one like these 2 again. Even if below bullion price! I like nice things, these are not!

    Screenshot 2015-07-04 22.49.19.png Screenshot 2015-07-04 22.49.09.png
     
    jmccarty, Jul 4, 2015
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  11. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    If I had to photograph every coin I purchased and am now embarrassed about, I'd probably run out of space in my camera. We all make mistakes on our purchases, mine was "unsearched" rolls. As long as you learn from your mistakes, then you're on your way.
     
    Seattlite86, Jul 4, 2015
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  12. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Now, see, I would consider buying a coin with that kind of damage as a type example. The damage doesn't impact the major design elements. I wouldn't pay much above bullion, but my chances of getting an undamaged Type 3 gold dollar close to bullion are slim to none.

    Wanting that coin might earn me the contempt of many collectors, but I don't care. And, given closing prices I see for auctions of such coins, there are lots of other collectors who feel the same way I do.
     
    -jeffB, Jul 4, 2015
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  13. jmccarty

    jmccarty Active Member

    I will sit on these for a very long time in any case. I don't sell!
     
    jmccarty, Jul 4, 2015
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  14. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I agree, at least right now, if I were to save a few hundred or thousand dollars, I'd be willing to consider purchasing that coin. Having said that, I'm probably just going to wait until I have the money or I die :p
     
    Seattlite86, Jul 4, 2015
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  15. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

    trade them up for a new coin.
     
    spirityoda, Jul 4, 2015
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  16. swamp yankee

    swamp yankee Well-Known Member

    Shame the butchers got hold of it,a local b/m cs had a Saint Gaudens that someone stabbed w/knife.Repeatedly,glad to not be his roomie!
     
    swamp yankee, Jul 4, 2015
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  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I don't deny that, but I don't agree with it either. And at times I will discuss the condition of the details too. But it was not very long ago that the TPGs would not slab them at all. Then they changed and began slabbing them with no estimation of the condition of the details -

    lf.jpg



    Then they later they changed again and began estimating condition of the details -

    [​IMG]


    I won't deny that either, but it doesn't really change anything, other than to show just how far the TPGs will go and change their grading policies, just to make their customers happy.

    Before changes were instituted by the TPGs most of the people in the hobby didn't care what the condition of the details might be. All that mattered then was that the coin was a problem coin, nobody cared how good or how bad the details were.

    But as they say the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And as more and more novice and intermediate collectors began becoming more active in the hobby, the more complaining there was about the TPGs charging for services but not slabbing problem coins. And the more complaining there was, then more and more people who had previously kept quiet about it jumped on the bandwagon and started complaining along with them. The more serious and advanced collectors still didn't care because they wanted no part of them (problem coins). But then more serious and advanced collectors didn't buy problem coins to begin with, but everybody else did.

    But revenues were falling due to lack of submissions. So to boost that and quiet complaints from the masses, they greased those squeaky wheels and began slabbing problem coins. For a while people were happy with that. Then they complained some more that now they wanted estimation of the condition as well. So they greased the wheels again and gave them what they wanted.

    So what you say is true in today's world Jeff, but it certainly wasn't always true. And for some of us, it still isn't.
     
    GDJMSP, Jul 5, 2015
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  18. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I enjoyed the read and your take on slabbing problem coins. I would like to say that I don't quite blame the TPGs since their goal is to make money and making money means keeping the most people happy. I also appreciate their labeling of what the details appear to be because it helps me learn to detect problem coins despite how nice they look. I will also never be able to afford an XF Flowing Hair Half Dollar for my Type Set and I just might have to accept a problem coin in order to fill that void in my collection.
     
    Seattlite86, Jul 5, 2015
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  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Oh I understand the reasoning why people want the problem coins slabbed and why they want an estimation of detail condition. But what a lot of folks don't realize is what came before that.

    From the very beginning of the TPGs in 1986 there was always a small group that wanted problem coins slabbed. But for 21 years the TPGs swore up and down, in writing, that they would never, ever, under any conditions, slab problem coins. And then all of a sudden they threw the promises out the window and did. And I also understand why the TPGs went back on their word.

    But you see, people can only go back on their word so many times before some lose a great deal or all respect for them. The TPGs also swore they would never change their grading standards either and they did that several years before they started slabbing problem coins. All because they needed the money.

    I guess we all should have known it, expected it even, from the very beginning for the purpose of a business is to make money, and to stay in business. But how long can you maintain respect for a business when they go back on their word, not just once, but numerous times ?
     
    GDJMSP, Jul 5, 2015
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  20. john59

    john59 Well-Known Member

    As long as you have a semi monopoly
     
    john59, Jul 5, 2015
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  21. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    This is indeed why I am very careful when I put my word to something.

    Side note, 1986 is my birth year :angelic:
     
    Seattlite86, Jul 5, 2015
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