1904 O VAM - Did I get it right?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Evan Saltis, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis 2 years on CT! Supporter

    Wasn't busy so decided to look up and around. This is what I believe I have. Feel free to chip in. The damaged denticles left of the 1 and the impression below the left wing lead me to feel that way.


    Thanks and have a good night :)

    210123161929236.jpg 210123162631999.jpg 210123163919111.jpg 210123170936344.jpg 210123171734054.jpg 210123172025388.jpg 210123172224925.jpg 210123172446999.jpg
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  3. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I find it amazing that minutae that Morgan collectors go to with the VAM varieties.

    I commend you and at the same time am a bit perplexed as to what's the fascination with some of these very very minor changes from coin-to-coin.
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  4. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis 2 years on CT! Supporter

    I myself am not particularly interested- as gathering many of these would not be affordable. Even if I cracked open the jar of unc steelies in my profile pic :smuggrin:

    I just like to know what I have. I have no chance to get every Overton variety, but when I can I like to have the info :rolleyes:
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  5. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    VAM is getting crazier every day. FWIW, there's a nice little die crack connecting the T and E on your reverse that isn't in their die markers.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  6. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis 2 years on CT! Supporter

    Yes, the die crack extends around nearly 2/3 of the coin. hard to photograph die cracks so can't really perfectly match it.
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  7. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    But then it doesn't match that VAM listing, that's the point. I'm sure it's another VAM, though, if the die crack is that extensive, you just have to go over those listings and find it. It has to be there, because that's how VAM started, they started categorizing by die cracks.
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  8. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Is that all VAM is....die cracks ?

    Any other series focused on die cracks ?
  9. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat dave700x -1883 O nut

    I chased that die progression for a while a few years back and have a 12A, 12B and two 22A2 examples. 1904-O is a fun date/mm to collect die varieties.
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
  10. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Good question. That's just how these guys started, with the die cracks. I'm not familiar with any series besides these Morgans being studied for die cracks.
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  11. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    You couldn't be further from the truth. Die cracks weren't considered at all when work on the VAM book was first started in the 1960s. A few were listed because of major die breaks, such as the 1888-O scarface, but most were based on die preparation differences. Repunched stuff, doubled dies, date positions, mint mark positions, mint mark punch shapes and sizes, hub changes. As more eyes turned toward these, starting in the late 1990s, more varieties were listed, again mostly due to the traditional variations in dies. Eventually, die cracks came in handy to confirm a match to or difference from a listed variety, but few were listed because of cracks. Within the past 5 years, cracks were listed as die markers to facilitate attributions, and some "displaced field breaks" (die cracks where the field is tilted differently on either side of the crack) were listed as subvarieties to break out die stages. Other series have people studying die cracks as well, including big copper, bust halves, and coins collected by CONECA numbers. Just like for VAMs, these indicate die stage and not a main feature for attribution, although their fingerprint nature can make them useful when attributing.

    The OP coin is VAM 22A2, by the way.
    expat and bradgator2 like this.
  12. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis 2 years on CT! Supporter

    I have an 1883 O I will be looking at next
  13. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Die break...die crack...die failure.

    All different, right ?
  14. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Yes. A die crack is the common, thin little cracks we see everywhere. A die break is where parts of the die are missing, the cracks widen, and/or there is evidence of the die falling apart. A die failure also includes other things that make the die no longer usable, such as excessive wear or collapse, sometimes due to the die being too soft.
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