1893 S morgan xf40

There is another reason why counterfeits are not perfect examples.

The way I was taught was that when a counterfeiter encounters his own product in the marketplace, he needs to be able to quickly and readily know the difference between his and the real thing. Thus a "tell" on each counterfeit product.

 

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I guess there is a need for a certification company to certify that your certification is legit.

 

There is only need for knowledge in a circumstance like this. All the OP needed was a barcode scanner app on his phone - like I have - and he could have known instantly that the whole affair was fake from a single pic posted online, like I did. No need to even know anything about Morgans in this case, just knowledge of how PCGS does barcodes. Or, no need to know anything about PCGS as long as you know about 1893-S Morgans. Any of the three images - the slab pic, the obverse, or the reverse - contained unequivocal proof that the item offered for sale was not real. I suppose that we could posit the coin was a genuine 1893-S in a fake slab if that's all you had, but what's the odds of that happening?

All of that information is available online at the speed of the Internet.

 

knowledge is the most powerful tool in the world

 

damn. good point. just gotta count on the ignorance/lack of education of the marks and you've got a profitable business.

 

I was kidding. You can't always read through sarcasm in a post on the net.
Slabbing ruined baseball cards for me.
Coins are different of course, but I lose that tactile experience when a coin is entombed in plastic. It's very sterile and uninteresting to me.
The slabbing just creates an entire industry, where one is not needed if people were informed and able to grade, and buy and sell their own coins without (unnecessary) certification, which can be counterfeited.

 

If pigs had wings, they could fly to the moon, too.

Certification is one of the needed realities in a hobby plagued by cleaned coins and the resulting attempts to overgrade those and sell counterfeits.

I suppose your method works at trusted local coin shops and coin shows. But only a fraction of today's sales come from those sources where a buyer can actually touch and examine a coin personally.

Some might say eBay is to blame for the current state along with internet dealers. But that ship sailed long ago. We will never return to the days of the local coin shop being king.

Just ain't going to happen.

 

Certification is NOT needed. Knowledge is. How do the certification companies know if a coin is genuine? Knowledge.
People are basically lazy, and as such will not do the work necessary. That's why it ain't gonna happen, but I'll say this... Those that are willing to do the work will be more profitable. Period.

 

Mike, I respect and agree with your points. My coin knowledge, compared with yours, probably would amount to a flea on an elephant's backside.

However, many brand new collectors come to this site. While they are learning this skill set you have mastered what should they do? Until their confidence grows enough to buy raw coins, I think they should stick to certified. (Being human, they are going to want to buy in the interim).

Otherwise, what amount of losses are acceptable until they learn the skills to avoid cleaned and counterfeit coins? Hundreds of dollars? Thousands of dollars?

I hope you see my point and the spirit in which it is offered.

We ain't all Mikenoodle. Not yet, anyway...

 

well, you give me entirely too much credit, I am just another guy, but one who likes to do his homework.

My point is that we should educate people rather than tell them that TPGs are necessary. They definitely have a place and a strong purpose, but it behooves all of us to learn for ourselves and that is what I will always advocate.

 

The pig wouldn't make it past the mesosphere

 

@jerry45

Any update on what you decided to do with this counterfeit? Were you able to get your money back?

 

Has anybody reported this to PCGS yet?

 

jerry45, posted: "It has the die gouge on the top of T in liberty also has the "rabbit ears" on the leg of the R in liberty."

This is very intriguing. The "1" is out of position so the coin is counterfeit; yet the coin has two of the "well-known" diagnostics found on the genuine coins. That indicates the counterfeiters incorporated these marks into their die.

Unfortunately, we have possibly scared off the OP so we cannot have him make a close-up image of the "RT" in "Liberty" for our education. That's a shame.

 

As they say in the business world, proper due diligence is required before making almost any purchase in coins.