1893 S Authenticity Help

DO NOT ever buy an expensive, uncertified key coin in any series. It is insanely risky. The 1893s is one of the most counterfeited coins in the Hobby. I won’t even speculate on its genuineness—I assume any 93s out of a slab is fake.

 

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In this case, the “S” stands for the Shanghai Mint. The slab probably originated there too.

 

No, it's relisted. Looks like the seller made a mistake with the price, then corrected it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/362990794555

 

Thanks. I thought it was someone's lucky day!

 

I think the images are good enough when you blow them up to see the "rabbit" in missing in the R of LIBERTY. I don't like the style of the S mintmark either.

 

While I disagree that all rare coins are slabbed or they are fake...I do agree that this coin doesn't look right. Fonts are off and the overall look of the coin just isn't right.

 

Not all rare raw coins are fakes, but a disproportionate number of them are. Certainly enough to stay away from raw rarities, just for authenticity.

 

I think there is too much blind dependence on the TPGs. Those are faked too. My only point was that being raw alone isn’t an indicator of a fake. If you want to spend big money on coins like this, then make sure you do your homework first. Slabbed or raw.

 

You're almost saying, "I don't know how to swim, but open sea rescue diving sure looks like something I'd want to try."

There is a lot to learn before buying a key date Morgan, let alone a raw one. Of course learning that is one of the things you need to learn, so here we are.

I don't see anything on that coin that screams that it's fake, but I also can't confirm authenticity. The date is in the right place and the 3 is a little higher than the 1. I can't see other diagnostics of a genuine coin because of the quality of the photos. The coin has been harshly cleaned, and even if genuine, it will be hard to resell because of the problems. Genuine, problem-free 93-S Morgans are expensive, but they are available.

 

Most collectors who chase expensive coins like this are looking for quality; they are not in the market for "hole fillers." For that reason they avoid problem coins, which is why the problems are harder to sell.

Early U.S. coins, which often have problems, can be the exception to this, but with the 1893-S dollar, there are enough no problem coins to make lowering your standards unnecessary.

 

There are TWO types of collectors who chase expensive coins like this one. Those who have deep pockets who are looking for quality, and those who have shallow pockets for who even stretching for the problem hole fillers is a reach. This second group often can't even reach the low grade problem free coins, so they are often in the market for better problem coins.

 

If I were in a category, it would be in the one with deep pockets seeking the quality of coins that have been altered in ANY fashion. I'm sure their are ways to verify doctored coins, but that analysis would require "In-hand" inspection using non-invasive? technology such spectrophotometry or its ilk to make that determination, which poses another problem. Where do you find a coin that has not been doctored to use as a comparison, ie. baseline?

 

I would like to think this is obvious, for any substantial coin purpose—do your homework. Having owned two 1893s coins, one a PCGS XF-45, and the other, a PCGS AU 50, I bought both from extremely reputable dealers, and did not buy either over the internet. A coin like that is an “in person” buy, from a solid dealer, that will stand behind the sale.

 

I would like to think so too...but that's not the case at all. There are a ton of people who just blindly buy based on the slab and those are fakes too. That's all I'm saying. I probably wouldn't buy one of these raw...but I would certainly study the coin and become an expert before I bought anything.

 

So it still comes down to do your homework, or your taking your chances.

 

I would say so. Not necessarily so for taking a chance on a $20 coin (who among us hasn’t done something $20 stupid?). $8000-$10,000 Stupid? That is a whole ‘nother story.

 

I totally agree. My only point was, plenty of good quality key date coins still exist as raw. The simply fact that a coin is not slabbed does not mean that it has a problem or is fake. That is what some members have been insinuating. My only point was this isn't true and to believe so is inaccurate.

 

People do though. And maybe this is an extreme example...but go back and look at the early part of this thread. Several members made comments that questioned this coin based on the lack of slab alone. Now, clearly this coin has issues of its own and those are obvious. But, on its own, the fact that it is raw shouldn't condemn this coin. There are tons of old coins collectors out there (some even older than @GDJMSP) and many of them were in this field decades before the TPGs existed and see no reason for them. Their coins do hit the market at times...and often they are raw.

I know its a much lesser example...but I have a raw problem free 1909-S VDB cent that would grade XF40. I have no interest in slabbing it at this time. That doesn't make it questionable.

 

Well, given that, if I were inclined to buy an expensive raw coin (I don’t), but for the sake of debate, let’s say I was. I would do my homework first, only buy a coin like that in person, and only buy from a handful of dealers. My rarity buys have only been from dealers I either know, or for which there is universal respect for among collectors.

 

I totally agree.

All I am saying is, I think the seemingly universal agreement that a rare coin must be fake or have an issue because its not slabbed is just silly. That's all. Now, slabs do provide a lot of security when buying coins online and that's great. But, they are not the end all.

Personally, I roll my eyes when someone says "a slab adds no value" because I disagree with that. Slabs have a place...they provide the unbiased opinion of an industry recognized expert into the quality and authenticity of the coin. That does have value...in several ways. But, on the flip side, the lack of that unbiased expert opinion does not on its own say the coin is bad. I feel like there are a lot of people here that don't agree with that.

I also roll my eyes when I see on Pawn Stars a coin come in and Rick tells the owner "I have to get it slabbed to be able to sell it." That's just BS.

Again, with this coin...there are a lot of issues. It's clearly been harshly cleaned. I'll be honest, I have not studied the specific markers on the 1893-S to be able to say for certain if this coin is authentic or not. But, I am certain I could learn them and study the coin and make that determination on my own without PCGS if I needed to.