1889-CC morgan Smart purchase or REALLY BAD one.

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by ROB OZ, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Well, it is in a 14 digit holder. The older 10s were generally accurate (IMO) while the 14's were so-so (hit and miss). I would not put a lot of faith in the coin crossing at grade, but they were not near as bad as the 9 digit holders. Coins residing in the latter and all later holders should basically be considered the same as raw.

    As for the coin shown, I cannot see enough on this tiny screen to given an honest thought, but from what little I can, lets just say that there are concerns.
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I don't think that it looks like a MS coin to me at first reaction. Very dull looking, and lacking in luster. I think I see rubs at the top of the cap and in the hair--enough to call it a high grade AU--probably AU 55-58. Just doesn't jump out at me as a particularly attractive coin.
     
  4. ROB OZ

    ROB OZ New Member

    I guess. All I know is it sold for $950 + 20% internet buyers premium. So if it's AU58 the purchase was okay if AU55 then the buyer overpaid.
     
  5. ROB OZ

    ROB OZ New Member

  6. John14

    John14 Active Member

    How many coins are you sending in, and what tier of service did you select?
     
  7. ROB OZ

    ROB OZ New Member

    Unfortunately I have to send in this 89-cc... I was told I'd need proof from the grading company that it is FAKE.... So that being said. Just 1 and I selected the 2 day $50 tier

    Also. Not sure what to put as "total owners value".....
     
  8. gamebird98

    gamebird98 Active Member

    WOW! First off I must say how sorry I am that someone did this to you. Altho it did take some bantering on here, it appears that you may have goten your answer and can proceed on posible recovery of your funds. Be thankful that you posted it on here and didnt just put into your safe only to find out years from now what you don't have. I must say that this whole post has scared the heck out of me...I am somewhat new to the collecting hobby and do make purchases from ebay which can be risky. I do only purchase low end coins from there just in case this very thing happens. Again, sorry for your loss but thank you for bringing this "risk factor" out into the light for those of us that are relatively new.
     
  9. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Rob, I'm not sure if this will answer your question, but if you're hung up on what valuation to use for shipping & insurance purposes, you should try to estimate the value of the coin based on its condition AS IF THE COIN WERE AUTHENTIC.

    Chris
     
  10. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    It doesn't matter if they are "low-end" coins or not. If you're new to the hobby, you should try to avoid buying raw coins on FleaBay until you've gained more experience in detecting problem coins as well as fakes. Your expenses for having to return problem coins can add up very quickly.

    Chris
     
  11. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    "Total Owners Value"

    Rob. I'm sorry to hear of what I understand to be the requirement to have the coin verified as a fake by a TPG, as I've futilely tried to obtain same in the past. Although the response by a TPG is merely an opinion, the grading organizations seemingly avoid any negative statements other than those which can be shown comparatively. They realize that an affirmative negative statement may require becoming party to a legal action, thus liability regardless of contradictory agreements.

    I personally wouldn't submit to a firm that wouldn't affirm a "copy" or "counterfeit" condition through a phone call. Generally, all but 9 states are "One-party notification states" allowing recording of a representative telephone conversation where a TPG representative states they will not necessarily affirm a "counterfeit" coin. I believe an objective judiciary would accept an inability to obtain credible verification of counterfeiting, (or authenticity) as a sufficient basis for a "copy" adjudication.

    I believe you'll generally find that "Total Owners Value" is that which has been paid for, or invested in, the commodity. An amount which could be declared as financial "damages".

    JMHO :thumb:
     
  12. Detecto92

    Detecto92 Well-Known Member

    I have read this from start to finish, and I must say it has provided for an interesting read. Lesson learned: be very careful buying high-dollar coins in the raw, and be even more careful if the slab is fake.

    Let's wait and see what the TPG has to say on this piece.
     
  13. ROB OZ

    ROB OZ New Member

    Either way, ANACS has it right now and they are processing it. I spoke with them and stated that once the authenticity has been determined (obviously added mint), I'd like a written statement stating what their findings are. Basically told them I want a document that I could use in court if it ever went that far. Should have it back next week.
     
  14. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Hey, man! Good luck!!!!
     
  15. George8789

    George8789 Leaving CoinTalk for good

    I want to say thank you ROB OZ for doing a good job keeping us updated. We get so many "fly by" posters that always leave us hanging and never update us when they say that they were.
     
  16. ROB OZ

    ROB OZ New Member

    Thanks.

    Your welcome. I pride myself in being honest and following up with what I say.

    Despite this unfortunate incident, you guys didn't think I'd let that stop me did you? LOL.

    While I wait for ANACS to finish what they're doing and get my paperweight back...

    Let's play another round of WHAT'S IT WORTH (is it REAL).... :)

    This time, it's in a PCGS SLAB and not RAW. VG 10 Grade..... Can anyone attribute a VAM to it with it being in such worn condition?

    another 89cc front.jpg

    another 89cc back.jpg
     
  17. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Dang, Rob! Now you have a fake 89-CC in a fake PCGS slab. J/K!

    Chris
     
  18. ROB OZ

    ROB OZ New Member

    You know it. HAHA. I followed a rainbow and found a leprechaun at the end of it.... With a pot full of 89-CC's. :D
     
  19. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    It could be a VAM-2.......high "9" and CC set right.

    Chris
     
  20. ROB OZ

    ROB OZ New Member

    Quite possibly. So what's the next step? Checking the holder for any possible tampering?
     
  21. Lucky Cuss

    Lucky Cuss Cobrador de Plata

    Fascinating thread, with some good detective work to resolve the question. Rob's link detailing this scam artist's activities (post #163) raises an additional question, though. If he's hawking other "rare Morgans", then it's logical to presume that they're also being made up from more common examples, by adding, removing, or changing mintmarks and/or dates. In any event, the "1889-CC" that this discussion started out with, while detectable as a fake by a professional grader, is certainly not so sloppily done as to be obvious (it fooled the dealer Rob took along with him, after all). But if the seller isn't doing this work, then what's the souce of this material? Is he hooked up with someone here in this country plying his nefarious craft, or are they being brought in from a foreign country (which could be almost anywhere)?

    I think eventually the federal authorities might end up getting in on this - there're already multiple states involved, U.S. coinage is being altered with the intent to deceive, and being that contact is being established via the internet, there's an element of wire fraud.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page