1889 CC counterfeit

Some of you have no doubt seen this article...I would love to see the actual process that they used.
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6062/counterfeit-detection/

 

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Interesting article. Innovations in the unfortunate practice of counterfeiting are becoming so advanced it makes you wonder if and how many of these illegitimate coins are sneaking by even the finest eyes at the top grading services.
Not to worry on my end as 5 figure price tags are out of my league anyhow.

 

That's some pretty serious machining. The reverse reminds me of 1884-CC VAM-10. The coin wouldn't get past a VAMmer who did appropriate due diligence, since the MM location isn't a match for the two known Far Date 1889-CC obverses, but with the accuracy of the machining it's as good a counterfeit as you're likely to find.

 

My first impression was that it was a sandwich coin. Sandwich coins are not new on the scene. I've seen another 89-CC made like this from an 84-CC reverse and 89-P obverse. There were a couple defects on the reverse that gave it away. 89-P obverses are almost never as sharply detailed as 89-CC, and you can see that the reverse is nominally sharper than the obverse. The marks on the rim were another red flag. The mint mark position confirms it.

 

That's really impressive machining skills, I'd hire them today. I realize that it wouldn't fool the well educated VAMer, but why not have the splice at the lower inner edge of the rim, it would be undetectable with the naked eye.

 

That would be brutally deceptive.

 

Kirkuleez - You make a good point about machining at the lower inner edge. My guess is that the counterfeiter tried that but for some reason was unsuccessful. Then again - maybe that has been done, and it HAS gone undetected.

 

If I read your question correctly, what you ask is called a "Cup & Saucer" alteration. These are the easiest to detect! Moving the "seam" to the top of the rim is genius - right up there with the "Embossed mint mark" alterations! You can bet there are many of his type of alteration on dollars with much less value - the "practice coins." Once these go undetected the fakers try for the "home run."

Many professional authenticators are not VAM specialists yet they can usually tell the Mint where a dollar was made by its strike, luster, surface fabric, and rim. It comes from holding/examining tens of thousands of dollar coins.

 

And that is why I ALWAYS attribute my coins. You just never know what you will find.

 

Truth, but thorough folks like you and me are not their target audience, which is still sizable. I have to wonder how many times that coin changed hands at high dollar amounts before discovery, and who got left with no chair when the music ended.

 

The person that did this is a very good machinist.

 

Sad, but true.

 

Don't give the counterfeiters any more good ideas.

 

I agree with Insider, most cases where on coin is inserted into another they make the joint just inside the rim and that is where everyone looking for that type of alteration looks. So they moved it to the rim itself where someone looking for the joint at the inner rim might miss it.

 

Wouldn't the "joint" have to be inside the rim, in order for the reeded edge to look genuine?

 

Well, look at the linked coin, where the machining is so accurate that it allowed them to remove areas into the flat part of the rim area, and then join the two pieces so accurately that it seems undetectable around most of the joint. That's good work.

I can't help but wonder if part of the detection process was finding evidence in the reeding of the obverse being clamped - you'd have to have a strong hold on it to machine that accurately.

 

Gentleman,
I really look forward to buying counterfeits on EBAY as most of the obvious ones sell for 400-500.00, 93s Morgans, CCs, 95o Morgans.
I then file a complaint and they dont want anyone to send back the coin and they refund quickly. I have 4 93s Morgans, 3 95os a bunch of trade dollars and CCs,
and am getting quite a collection. I think Ill write a book with pictures of course.!!
Sure beats boredom and a great hobby.
M1

 

Beings the tread talks about counterfeits, I got this back this week from NGC. The members of my Coin Club talked me into submitting both double dies for certification:

 

I have a theory that all die pairings have a set established die rotation - which I believe might prove to be one of the more difficult characteristics for a counterfeiter to duplicate.

I haven't run across any studies on this subject. I have often wondered how static this characteristic remains once the obverse and reverse dies are set in the coining press and striking coins.